FR8Dog7

And your opinions on the rest?

crapgame

wonder who the pilots that pulled the plug in SNN called, at 5am this morning, when the company wanted them to continue?

also since have been a little involved with the union when bob K was TEC, why the company would not return his calls and why all the polar grievance never got heard.

if you read this thread you have seen the what are you willing to give up essay. there is no free lunch. the company is not yer daddy. you have to give something -even if it is your individuality to be on the same solid footing as your union brothers. if you have been here long enough you know that 'what are you willing to give up' was Cato's mantra. kevins paper was written years ago in response to that.

as in all things political - watch what they do,,,or have done recently,,,not what they say. what has bob k done for you lately?

suddenimpact

I have to agree. Bob K has not been heard from since he and the rest of the TEC got dumped despite him representing the Polar Grievances even to this date.

A lot of folks don't like Kevin M. gruffness, but who is the first person they call when it hits the fan on the line? If it isn't him pretty quickly, It's him as soon as he can get back to you and he does get back to you. He kind of got screwed on the sound bite thing of "give up". That was only with a signed CBA by both parties. Company always leverages a quid pro quo of give and take after a CBA is signed. It's not a one way street. Your naive to think otherwise and our pilot group is not holding the line very well at all with what our CBA does give us. We collectively are giving away crap on every trip because we don't hold to the CBA as a group. How is the current ExCo supposed to work with that happening.

It's great to hear others finally realize that the NextGen is what it is, trying to get the new hires unknowing of their reputations to put them in office. Lets hope they start listening to some of the more seasoned members. Heard that there maybe some new trouble brewing over how NextGen are handling their attempt at covering up Alexander's most recent section 19 screw up. Just how many lives is that guy going to screw up? Hopefully we can stop that.

Whaledriver

Since you asked, and to be clear, I am not arguing or telling you you're wrong, we all have experiences and opinions. Our big difference is Brad. Not sure what the issue was, but I have never heard anything negative about him until now. And my personal activities with him have always been positive.

I put this together last week while DHing:

This is going to be as positive as I can. First let's talk about some knowns.

Kevin M. Has done nothing but bust his butt on our behalf for the last eight years or so, as a steward and ExCo member. I have plenty of issues to disagree with Kevin and have in the past, but I have no issues with trust and integrity. Yes, he can rub you the wrong way but there are VERY few that he hasn't helped or directly intervened on your behalf.

Eric J. What can I say, P2P member, helps host calls, then hotel committee Chair. What a job he has done, in spite of some of our own CM's actions.

Mike G. Served as our lead steward. Has done a bang up job defending this contact, and has been the key guy in keeping some folks their job here.

Kat H. An up and comer, already making her presents known on several committees.

Laurie A. Chairman of the Critical Incident Response Program, CIRP, and actively involved in many family related decisions made by the current ExCo.

Brad G. Served well on this ExCo and has been very involved in training center issues. Always availed himself for any issues and has been active, not just taking up a spot. He did not ask for this job, but was asked to fill a vacancy and was willing to step up.

These folks have proven thru their acts and deeds, to be working for us and our union. I have no problem associating the words integrity and trust with any of the above.

Now to the question marks??? I'm gonna call this an CRM thang. In our job, waiting until after the accident to speak up is frowned upon. So I am going to speak up before we are sitting off the end of the runway with our tires in the mud.

John A. Has issues in the past and present. I have no idea what his true motivations are but my gut says you and I are not near the top. Nuff said.

Now, Jeff C. and I have a history and trust and integrity are not words I would association with his actions. I'm going to leave it at that. The fact that he has had issues with this ExCo and has hitched on with John A. is cause for concern when it comes to motivation.

Both of these gentlemen can talk the talk, but they have defiantly not walked the walk, in my opinion.

Now for the others running, I don't yet know enough about them and how it would relate to them as ExCo to open my yap.

I appreciate that we have so many willing to step up. It says two things. We have a healthy union and there is some dissatisfaction out there. As far as dissatisfaction, when was the last time you witnessed a union leadership election without some?

So my question is simple, why in the world would you hand our future to question marks when we have so many known's to chose from?

Whaledriver

I agree, Bob K. is an unknown for me. To be honest, I am anti-Bobb H., primarily because of some of his actions in the past, not to be argued or rehashed here. My question to the Polar guys, is Bob K. a Bobb H. kinda guy, or an anti-Bobb H. kinda guy, or are they simply not related?

ATCsaidDoWhat

This wasn't just Cato's mantra, it's managements mantra. Detroit, the W.Va coalfields, Pittsburgh and Baltimore steel mills, Hostess bakery...if you are in a valid contract and want something more...it doesn't come for free. Hell, for that matter, when was the last time you went into a restaurant, demanded a dinner because you wanted it and told them you didn't feel that you should have to pay for it?

Kevin's telling crewmembers what the companys first response is should not be seen for anything more than what it is. A reality of life in the labor / management process...and life. Nothing is free.

This isn't an attack on the newer folks when I say this; but there is an alarming lack of knowledge about the RLA, the NMB and the labor/management relationship in this country. We ALL want things right now, especially in today's "download the app and get it now" environment. Or, as Eric Cantor is so fond of saying, "I want what I want when I want it."

If you want it that way, you need to jump the fence and join management. They hold the leverage, whether you want to admit it or not. That's the bedrock of the RLA and how they stopped the rail strikes of the last century. And it's why airlines were put under the RLA when labor organized in the airlines.

This used to be freshman year college stuff. Maybe they don't teach it anymore.

The fact that it's not understood by the rank and file is concerning. The fact that a slate is running that demonstrates no knowledge of it whatsoever, and whose stated goal is to run afoul with intent; without understanding the harm that would come to everyones jobs, should be a reason for serious concern by all.

flyboy8272

I disagree. We need to stop our internal fixation. What are our upper management and shareholders willing to give up? We are a successful company with professional business strategies; it's time to start thinking INDUSTRY STANDARD. Don't we read the "Did You Know" section of the monthly Union newsletter email? All of our professional peers (including even regional contracts) are earning Bid Line Award guarantees, daily rigs, better DH credits, proper compensation for sick time / vacation / training, no imputed income, etc... Perhaps our Contract Negotiations Committee could send out an email compiling all of our CBA deficiencies versus others? Why should we have to give up anything for what is industry standard? Demand it and let it go to an arbitrator!

Whaledriver

Because arbitration has worked so well for us in the past and present (breakfast) and we have tons of money to spend on them. Are you volunteering to donate your time, because there is a bunch of labor involved as well?

flyboy8272

I don't want things to go to arbitration; i'm just saying let's not be afraid to demand what we are worth and what others are already earning!

Whalefr8

To DEMAND is to ask for with proper authority; or to claim as a right:

So what is your plan when they say NO! Then what?

These guys are businessmen. They could care less what UPS or ABEX pilots are making. They are not just going to give us more money or better work rules because they are such swell guys - no matter how much money Atlas is making.

We can "demand" all we want. But unless, and until, we prove that we have the leverage (proper authority), they absolutely will not meet our demands. In fact, a demand may have quite the opposite effect UNLESS it is backed up by leverage.

So are you willing to go on strike or even man an informational picket to provide that leverage? Willing to go to Purchase and stand in the rain outside the gate holding a sign? There are many many other things that we do routinely that could provide the leverage, and the message, needed to demand better work rules and pay were we NOT to do them. But we actually have to give up our individuality and all pull together or it is meaningless. The company knows this - and they know exactly who will, and who won't. Believe it or not, a lot of what they know they get from reading this board.