ATCsaidDoWhat

Am I to assume that your demands will be during Section 6? Or before? During Section 6, fine...that's what negotiations are for. Don't for a moment think that just because you lay facts and figures in front of a mediator that things magically happen. The same with an arbitrator. And they can't force the company to do anything.

If you are talking about demanding them now, explain why you feel you have a successful argument. Remember that an arbitrators job is to see that the contract is upheld. If they find fault, they will rule that way...or split the ruling so both sides can claim they won. You see, arbitrators are independent and like to have a paycheck. So they make it a habit of being middle of the road most of the time. That way they have a better chance of getting hired by the next group.

In both cases...assuming that the positon of demanding is unsuccessful...what's your Plan B?

suddenimpact

It looks like some are finally starting to figure out the difference between the actions taken after a CBA is signed and in effect vs when actively in Section 6 Negotiations. The former is usually a quid pro quo of give and take. The section 6 is when you make demands, particularly when released for strike.

thesandbox

Sorry....the reason a lot of the "newer folks" do say something is because of the fact that they have been at other places, (except perhaps the military folks but this is not an attack on them), for many years. We are quite familiar with the RLA and NMB, and have gone through "more than one" negotiated contract, which would actually put the more senior guys here in the "lack of knowledge" category if you would like to go that route since everyone says this was our first contract and not even negotiated per the norm. Many of us do come from other ACMI carriers so the argument that we are different and have different customers falls on deaf ears especially when we had a better contract that was even negotiated by an association that despises ACMI carriers. Now why could this have all taken place....it sure as heck was not due to a lack of understanding of the RLA, NMB, industry, choice of union, customers, etc... IT WAS DUE TO A STRONG SOLID GROUP OF PILOTS THAT WERE BEHIND WHAT THE GROUP AS A WHOLE KNEW THEY DESERVED. And yes, I have taken a strike vote as well and mine was a "yes". To be treated like human beings and not slaves. Yes, a company needs to realize they need to be willing to give up a bit of profit in order to treat its profit earners with some dignity that will actually produce more profit in the end. We will feel more invigorated to keep the company and the customer happy because we know they respect what we do and understand the toll our current situation takes on ours and our families lives.

Whaledriver

I respectfully disagree. If the crewforce wants to change the seat lock, I am all for it. I am not for an ExCo telling me what is important.


Again, I respectfully disagree. I want an ExCo that fights for all of us, not just one group. I NEVER said junior issues were a waste of time. In my opinion, the out of seniority issue will be fixed by natural movement long before we get it as an amendment to our contract or the new contract. Bottom line, there are bigger issues out there that are important to more than just one group.

BTW, the contract was written as is when the 767's came on the property and made the junior 767 guys slots possible. Just saying....nothing has changed since you signed up. If the majority want it changed, it will have my vote.

If you let an anonymous poster change your vote, well there are other issues. I have not declared for a slate. I am in no hurry. BTW, if one group is pushing for you to vote immediately after receiving the ballots, think red lights and alarms!!! Just saying......? More to come....


What would you expect for these LOA's?

The 767 LOA provided protection for the line guy from CTI's that hang out in MIA for 17 days (one time zone, one hotel room, breakfast every morning, 10% more, 10 hours more, ect) and then decide they want to fly the line and absorb open time. It also made it possible for the CTI's to bid open time if they are flying the line for the month. BTW, we voted on this and approved it.

The 777 LOA is an almost exact copy of the 767 one, but a side letter was signed, starting the bidding of training (remember, originally it was assigned) that we now have and trip trade/open time module which is coming soon to the 767 guys long before I will see it on the 747. Neither of these items were expected until the next contract.

I have explained why the instructors got the improvements (10%/10 hours) elsewhere, not worth repeating.

Whaledriver

OK guys, this is IMPORTANT. I just learned that the vote is for Chairman and then ExCo members. There will be one Chairman and four ExCo members. If BK gets more votes than KM and JA, KM and JA will again be line pilots. The other four ExCo members will be the four that get the most votes. The runner ups from the Chairman slots do not roll back. It's Chairman or nothing.

suddenimpact

When was the last time you called BK and he solved a problem? Same on the old grievances?

suddenimpact

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like an ass. It's just that he has not stepped up and pushed on the past back load of grievances that piled up under Henderson's reign at Polar for not talking to management. Although I do appreciate him stepping up and defending the accused Atlas pilots under the regime he served under labeled inappropriately. I just have not seen him on the scene lately for those Polar grievances he is supposed to representing from the TEC appointment.....

Elusive Napkin

He was actually just in DC last month discussing the Polar grievances. Just passing along the info...

jetjock6

If you go to the union website and look under committees/negotiating/contract study, you will find a lot of the info on contract comparison. Look at the Delta Contract Compairason 2014. A lot of good info. For all the talk of "I want this and that," no one mentions rig ratio. We're getting hosed on rig pay and that's where the real money is at. No one on that list is getting less than 1 for 4.

Thx to the guys on the Contract Study Commettee for getting us that info.

TimmyR

FWIW, every time I've emailed a committee or the Exco I've received a timely response and/or help (as needed), often from KM. I do not think this is what you are referring to, but it seemed to be a slightly broad statement. N=1