Not denying any if that. Just looking at it like the lawyers would. Like I said, F9 is ALPA too. We probably ought to talk to the national and see what leverage if any we might have here. It's clear that AA has for years used their flow to staff their WOs. AND THROTTLE THAT FLOW TO SUIT THEMSELVES. What legal options exist for us (if any), I simply don't know, but it seems that ALPA would be the ones to ask.

But AA also hires their wholly owned outside of the flow while this arrangement says we cannot be hired outside the flow.

If it is like the TSA agreement, the letters that deny hiring outside the flow to those that apply to F9 are from the F9 recruiting department, not TSA. What we were told was F9s legal department determined they could not hire outside the flow due to language placed in the agreement by TSH legal counsel.

So this is apparently an internal decision at F9 based on language in the agreement and has nothing to do with ALPA. The flow was negotiated between both companies and ALPA was not involved.

Yep, but the point I was making is that we have no contract with F9 and can’t do squat about who their management decides to hire or not and for what reasons. But they are an ALPA carrier and there may be something that ALPA can suggest either through the F9 contract or through our own contract with TSH that would be helpful, because I doubt that any federal or state hiring discrimination laws are going to prohibit this.

Simply ranting on APC that it is unfair may be entirely true but it is unlikely to be helpful. Besides, we pay dues for these people to help us with contract issues. And if there’s nothing that can currently do this still might be something we will want to address in the next TA.

TSH is so disgusting, this cancer needs to be removed from the industry.

Is the flow back agreement with DL still intact? I know the flow ended a very longtime ago, and as it looks today it would never be used, but curious if the LOA/MOU still remains and is part of the current contract extension

Congrats on the contract extension. For how long is this one?

Poking around a bit in the TSA subforum, it sounds like the restriction comes from TSH, which wanted to restrict the number of pilots going from TSA to F9.

Under the old F9 contract, this would have been a non-issue, as the number of CP people going to F9 back then was minuscule (<10 per year). But now with the new and improved F9 contract, I'm guessing TSH insisted on the same restriction with CP. So we probably just got the same agreement that TSA did, except it's 2-4/month instead of 2.

I would be surprised though if our union challenged this at all.

TSA's agreement is 2-4 a month. TSA hasn't been anywhere near an appropriate staffing level so they have only flowed 2 a month.