There are some nice ones - 30 hour SAN out of LAX, YVR is fun if you rent a car and go up to whistler, I personally enjoy PVD but i'd agree with the sentiment in this post.

In talking to an ALPA P2P advisor a majority of the pilot group is unhappy with the ADTG, it is benefiting very few (benefiting junior line holders or those with low credit trips)...the trips are fluctuating because of the decrease in block hours going into low travel season. In talking to the same advisor the company has deliberately changed the pairings to benefit themselves, the advisor stated that when the 6 month ADTG trial period expires they fully expect to not renew it it...for the month of September I lost 9 hours of pay over 3 four day trips. That would have given my roughly $300 extra dollars and 2 days off if the 4 hour min day credit was applied and counted towards PBS, even if it didn't $300 is $300

They will always optimize the pairings to benefit themselves. No matter what we negotiate, they will optimize the pairings to be as cost effective as possible with in the rules. It is just responsible business management.

You're confusing the new trips with ADTG and forgetting the fact that we now have LAX as a pilot base and no LGA flying. The draw down of LAX pairings out of MSP and no LGA is leading to the crappy pairings. Just a coincidence that it happened at the same time. No more 28 hour 4 days because of the DFW-LGA shuttle and no highly productive west coast shuttle flying. Those were the primary drivers of such high credit trips. Not saying the ADTG is perfect but you need to understand what is really causing the problem.

Your confusing that this is directly from the head of the P2P program, this is what the union is saying...concerning this issue. It hasn't benefited me but I'm just one person. In the unions eyes, a majority of the pilot group as a whole is not benefiting from this, you can disagree with me which is fine, but if you believe that what I'm saying isn't true, I suggest you contact your block rep or the P2P chair...I understand you believe things are changing but I've worked at three seperate airlines, the company is always three steps ahead of us as a pilot group, they will find ways to squeeze every cent out of us...they will always find a way

Sigh ok, believe what you want. Why don't you talk to the PBS chair and people who directly deal with the pairings instead of someone who has been on maternity leave the majority of the time this all went down.

Not True. FCA, SAN, BIL, PSC, SLC, MSO, HLN, PVD aren't airport hotels.

Sounds like a lot of speculation, assumption, and coincidences. I don't think the airline runs like that. I think they know exactly what will make them the most money and they will take full advantage of the ADTG deal. They absolutely will, and have, modify the pairings. And if that means more 19 hour 4 days with a 30 hour in the middle then that's what they'll do. I haven't talked to anyone who likes this stupid ADTG deal. If you do then you're in the minority and I hope the union stands up and refuses to renew it after the trial period ends.

And what he wrote isn't the same? And for the record I am not a fan but I also realize those factors make it even more noticable. I want them to reverse it when the time is up.

Mustache is actually right. I spoke to someone in planning who said the same thing, in order to create more efficient schedules we need longer legs and the draw down in LGA while simultaneously expanding the west coast with hour long shuttle flights makes that difficult.

For the record, I am not thrilled about the ADTG but I do recognize it as being better than the old system of no min day pay and no credit. My question is - even if we do get pay and credit for 30 hr overnights when this is revisited, how do we know they wont do the same thing and just reconstruct the pairings so they pay as little as possible again so 4 hours min day x 4 days = 16 hr four days?

I dont have the LOA handy so excuse me if I am mistaken and that example I gave is actually not possible.