Anybody at Compass hear any rumors of additional bases....JFK perhaps?

Jesus, they pay 75% of DeadHead and don't pay for your hotel during training? Les per-diem than most other airlines and sub-par pay for the 175.................

sad

I guess the whole "flow through" carrot makes up for it...................

Oh goody, this is going to turn into one of those "my crappy regional is better than your crappy regional" threads.

no, it's not, but I think its worth noting...............

Noted. Thank you Mr. Sanctimonious XJET pilot.

act like a child all you want, does'nt change the fact that Compass doesn't pay for your hotel, nor do they pay 100% deadhead, and your flying around a decent amount of people in a 175, are you not worth more than $35/hr?

I wouldn't take it so personal, if you are defending those aspects of Compass shows how little you value yourself ;)

There are a lot of things I don't like at Expressjet and I would be the first to say they have to change, but Jesus H Christ at least they put a roof over our head when we go to training. An airline can't function without guys and girls up front, they need us, we don't need them

Why are you defending Compass?

I'm not defending Compass. It's a ********y regional just like every other "airline" out there with someone elses logo painted on the side of it's airplanes. Compass, Mesa, ExpressJet; I can see no big difference between any of them, and I've worked for all three.

I think the problem is that alot of pilots dont want to get stuck at a "good" regional forever like Eagle or now whats happening at XJT. Its all about risk vs reward, sure you can hold out and wait to get hired at a good regional and make FO wages for alot longer or take a chance on Compass where you may move up quicker and IF and When the flow starts you've just secured a job at a major at some point which other airlines dont offer. A big problem is the increasing number of "lifers" at the regionals that are soaking up the "higher" paying positions and stranding others in FO seats where they are stuck making sub $40 bucks an hour. While thats better pay than other regional FO's that doesnt mean much if your never break 50K a year while others move up from their crappy fo pay to a captain quicker and then move on to a major.

Point is until the regionals bring up their FO pay than alot of people will continue to go where the movement is and not fight for better contracts. The stepping stone idea doesnt work anymore because the movement is slow and more and more captains are digging in and HOPING their gamble of staying put pays off :cool:

If this was 1994, you would be talking about what a horrible choice it would be to go to Southwest, with their lack luster pay, benefits, etc. Bottom line, people need to do what is best for their situation, and I for one, refuse to look down on someone for doing what is right for them and their family.

so in your eyes, you have no problem with people scabbing?


and for SuperPilot's post, I understand what your are saying, however that thinking is why so many people are willing to put up with poor work rules and low pay. Unfortunately the path to a major is not that easy (when NWA was hiring they hired a very "targeted" pilot group, at least from what I saw, they took a lot of guys with just under 1,000hrs of PIC and did pass up a lot of guys with a lot of PIC, again this is not all that they hired but it did seem to be a trend, you can't deny that), anyway the problem is,this industry has changed and one's tenure at a regional will most likely be a few years, so why take the abuse?, does the "end justify the means?" maybe it does, but if the QOL and pay at the regionals improves I would imagine the pay & QOL at the majors will improve.

An example are the guys that went from XJT over to CAL, a lot of those guys are hardcore and simply wont accept the fact that they had better work rules when they were at XJT, so now that their contract is up they are fighting tooth and nail to make sure they get a better contract

anyway enough of the rambling

there in lies the problem, all regionals suck in their own ways. Some are better than others but theres only so much you can polish a turd.

It's all about money, generally all regional fo's make anywhere from 14k to 23k their first year no ifs ands or buts, Then mid to high 20's to 30's second year. Captains 50-60k. ALL regionals are the same except maybe for Horizon who actually treat and pay their pilots half way descent. Yes Skywest and Xjet are awesome whatever, but we all have one goal, well for me now is to get hired flying anything, but it is to get to the "Majors" These forums make everyone depressed including myself. I've been a member of this site longer than most, let's try helping each other out instead of ridiculing the airlines. I would be so gracious to get hired by Compass, the airlines can do whatever they want. Like my dad told me growing up why can they charge 9 dollars a beer at a sporting event or pay a professional pilot 14k a year well son because "THEY CAN". Pilots helping pilots isn't that what this site is suppose to be about.

Thank you. My point exactly.

^ not true, living in base I made $50,000 as an F/O last year, that shows what a solid contract can do, a regional is just not a regional.........

You guys have to change your mentality of just looking at regionals in terms of upgrade.

Whats depressing is watching guys take years of abuse to get a shot at a major.........

My goal is to move on, but Im not willing to sacrifice my life for it. Flying is a JOB, too many people let it consume their lives, before you know it, we will all be on the 757 at some bankrupt airline wondering what the hell happened and where did it all go

come on joey, he's talking about taking a chance on CPZ. Thats not scabbing :rolleyes:

XJT offers some things that CPZ doesnt and CPZ offers some things that XJT doesnt. Personally i cant blame a guy for taking a chance on CPZ as opposed to being junior or furloughed from XJT. Who knows when these furloughed guys will get recalled much less upgrade. CPZ while it needs improvements in its contract offers alot of Potential if everything pays off. Its a choice and a risk either way.

haha I'm not calling guys that go to Compass scabs, that was'nt what I was getting at.

But how much were you whoring out yourself and picking up open time while your buddies are getting layed off..Bottom line is, you did what was necessary for you and your family buy whoring to get that $50,000 as an FO. The guy that is applying to Compass to fly for 75% DH pay is doing they same thing in my opinion.

Open time pickup was when we did not have anyone on the streets, ADV pickups legit when we have guys on the street.

Look, I understand that Compass has a lot of potential due to the flowthrough, but I would hope that people would go there with the intent of leaving it a better place for the guys that come in behind them. I would hope guys would make it a point (after their year of probation) to ensure that new-hires have their hotels paid for and they get a better payrate on the 175. I just hate to see people get gitty over an airline job when in reality its a pretty Sh*tty job (not just Compass I mean all of them)

The problem is we ALL get so caught up in this industry if we take a step back and look at what they put us through for such low pay, its pathetic.........

ok you are a relatively senior fo in EWR right? Not all guys live in base and not all FO's are senior. Would you tone be different if you werent able to be based in EWR and you didnt have bidding power? How long will you be in the right seat? If the Captains that could have moved on but didnt actually moved on would you be a captain? I understand and respect that you're trying to make it better but most people out there have no intention on purposefully sticking it out at a regional wondering when the next rug gets pulled out. The unfortunate truth is people need to be able to get in and out of the regionals ASAP. You and i both know that if a regional gets to expensive then it will gets cut. This is why we need to recapture flying at the majors because if we dont then the endless whipsaw will continue at the regional level.

veyr good post I agree 100%, and if I couldn't hold Newark and was on reserve, in all honesty I don't think I would be here, I am to educated and well rounded to waste my life commuting to some Sh-thole base for $25k a year. I am able to hold EWR and bid a decent line so I stick around, so you are right in that respect but thats the point, I would not subject myself to those terms. I am fortunate enough that my wife makes more than I could ever make at Expressjet, or even at CAL as an F/O.

I happen to work to live, not live to work. Sounds hypocritical because I do bust my a$$ and pick up ADV trips, but thats because its on my own terms, XNA turn, or Nassua turns, but if I got furloughed from here there is no way at 28 yrs of age that I would go to an airline that would not pay for my hotel during training...............

I mean this is our Lives were talking about, we only get one. How many years do you want to spend in a crashpad eating ramen noodles at the prime of your life?

I have absolutely no idea what I just said, sorry for the rambling.

PS flying the 75 for Delta out of JFK sure does sound nice though,:D

$50,000. Impressive. I made that much after my 5th year as a flight attendant, and all I was responsible for was serving cocktails and picking up trash not hauling 50 people around in a jet. Still think you are paid enough? My one year at ExpressJet I made about $20,000. It's a shame, but it is what it is. This is the gamble we take to get to the show.

I'm sorry Joey, but I respectfully disagree with you. A regional is a regional.

yeah but you have a good sugar momma right? not everyone has that and most regional jobs are unfortunately a means to an end read: higher paying job. Too many regional captains got stuck and have no plans on moving on which gums up the whole machine. Combine that no where to go right now, it only gets more guys stuck which will further gum up the gears.

You're right, people should make it better while they are there but not so much so they can stay and TRY and make a "career" out of it. That raises costs because longevity increases thus undermining the ability for the companies to stay better places for those coming up the ladder. The sad fact is those regionals that make it to the top, end up getting tore back down or go away.

btw, I hope you end up getting on here eventually because we need more game changers here ;)

^ Can't argue, very good point, also depresses me haha

Also a very good point, definitely can't argue with you either :)

I do think a lot of the ones that stayed when they had the chance to get out must be Shooting themselves, that should be punishment enough for them making it harder for junior guys to move up the ladder :)

So how do I get hired at ExpressJet? Oh yeah, they aren't hiring. Okay, how about Southwest? Oh yeah, they aren't either. How about UPS and FedEx? Same story. Who is hiring right now?

Okay, how about I go overseas? Oh wait, I have been furlouged since April and they all want recent currency.

Okay, how about I just hold out until a great paying job comes along? Oh wait, by then I will be way out of currency and my unemployment compensation has a limited lifespan.

Well then I will just find a different job. But where to look? Unemployment is over 10% right now and if I get to interview I will have to convince an HR person that I will never go back to flying and that my job skills will transfer to whatever job they are hiring for.

Well then, I can go back to school and get retrained. Hmmm, but I already have a ton of student loan debt, and it will take me a year or two to get trained in anything worthwhile. But I know several people who have gone back to school, taken on loads of debt to get some more education, and are have been looking for work for six months oreven longer. So there is a huge risk there. And changing careers at 40 and older is very hard to do, even in a great job market.

Or I could get back into flying at low pay, get myself current again and see how the market turns around over the next few years. Perhaps I may even get lucky and I can get this flow through to Delta.

Once again a case of an RJ pilot, who has taken a lot of mainline flying, throwing stones in their glass house. The guys who are getting hired at the few regionals that are hiring are not young kids right out of flight school with SJS. Most of us are experienced guys who are on furlough from majors, or charter companies, who need a chance to get back in the air to be ready for the next cycle. Do we like the low pay? Of course not. But it is an opportunity to keep flying and continue with the career/job we have so much invested in. And don't dare compare taking a low paying RJ job with being a scab, not even remotely close.

I'd also like to mention that at Comair, DH pay was 75%. I'm not saying CPZ pilots shouldn't be paid more (they should be, like the rest of us in this industry). That said, if your beef is that CPZ gets 75% DH pay, I'd say its almost industry standard (unfortunately)

NEdude

If you don't think you can convince an HR person that your experience flying a 121 airplane with a complete stranger can transfer over to ANY OTHER job, you need to work on your communication skills or read a few books on persuasion. This is the SINGLE BEST job to demonstrate skill, its a demanding job, high pressure, little room for error, technically demanding, and shows you can work with others and solve problems. Also I did not say taking a low paying job was the same as a scab, read it again. It's nobodies fault but your own if you put all your eggs in one basket and thought you would never be on the street. First thing I did was come up with a backup plan if I get furloughed.

Saab,

Park it on the criticism of NEDude...he's a great guy whose been around the block a time or four.

Anybody can "spin" this job (or any job) to make themselves sound good, but you've got to have someone listening who is open-minded enough to draw the parallels and if you think most non-aviation HR people are then you're giving them WAY too much credit.

Does anyone know the phone number to HR in Minneapolis? I was called, but the number left on my voice mail is inactive. Apparently this happened to quite a few guys.

Don't lecture me on furloughs, I am on number three. And I have some backup plans, what do you think has been holding me over. And yes, I do have experience in other fields.

The issue is nobody is hiring, anywhere. Three years ago, for every job opening, there were on average 1.5 applicants. Latest data available now shows that for every job opening there are 8 applicants. So just getting an interview is tough. Why do you think lines at job fairs are filled with experienced professionals? Because the market is so tough. Even a lot of backup plans are not working.

The simple fact is you took a job with ExpressJet which pays $23/hour at a 75 hour guarentee, just like Compass. You are flying routes that used to be flown by major airline pilots. Continental has 147 pilots on furlough while you fly their former routes. United has well in excess of 1000 pilots on furlough and you are about to fly routes that they used to fly. So stop throwing your stones, your glass house is pretty fragile.

The thought that CPZ guys just settle for their bad contract is very far from the truth. You have to remember that not a single one of us voted for this contract. We have mainline NW to thank for it. The sad thing, is that this is the best contract that they could come up with when it was originally written for their own furloughed pilots. Every single one of us wants to change things here, the problem is that there isn't a lot that we can do for a few years. There are a lot of xjt refugees here (including myself), and we know what a good contract is like. Every captain I fly with I make it a point to tell them how good the xjt contract was, and we talk about things that have to change when it's up for renegotiation. I can promise you that given the chance, we will stand up and fight for it.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say "I'd never fly a 76 seat plane for those rates". I know this because I used to say the same thing, but sometimes life throws you a curve ball and you've gotta do what you've gotta do. Joey, you've gotta come off that pedestal that you're standing on and realize that we are all in the same boat. There are great people at CPZ, and there's no reason to put down the pilots. Say what you want about management, but leave the pilots out of it.

Throwing stones?, how is it that the destruction of this industry comes back to the regional pilot? It was the short-sighted MAJOR airline pilot that gave up scope for their own personal gains, now look where it got you...............

and for the record we have 2x as many pilots on the street then CAL does, 347 to be exact
and we have 347 on furlough, more than twice CAL

HogsPilot. I am not putting down the pilot, its actually the opposite I believe you guys are worth more than 75% deadhead and should be making more then me being your flying a airplane almost twice the size. Also the pilots may be a great bunch of guys, but does not change the fact that in my eyes it's disgraceful they don't pay for your hotel during training.

You guys need to seperate the pilot from the company, just because I say negative things about an airline does not mean I feel the same about the pilot working there. If it came across that why I apologize Some of you guys need to grow a thicker skin.

Ok guys drop it !

Let this thread go back to being an information outlet for people seeking work before you get it closed.

For those that got hired, post your class dates.

December 17

Saab did you vote in favor of the 6.83% pay cut last year?

Why is it soooooooo hard to understand that most of the larger RJ's(NW's in particular) are a result of BANKRUPTCY!? Do you honestly believe that BANKRUPTCY did NOT have something to do with this?

These large RJ's, along with MASSIVE paycuts, frozen or dissolved pensions, and less favorable work rules were CRAMMED down the throats of Legacy Pilots because management teams were able to manipulate BK rules to their advantage. This was not about short-sighted LEGACY pilots just giving up scope for more $$$.

Look, I was at XE and I don't forget where I came from. I don't give Compass pilots a hard time, dirty looks, or flip them the birdie when I see them. As a matter of fact, I try to make them feel as comfortable as possible when they jumpseat on us. When I non-rev on them I do my best to strike up some friendly chat. I've had a really easy ride in this industry so far, and while I have cast stones in the past I do my best not to anymore because I haven't been confronted with a lot of the situations that other pilots have.

Bottom line, guys are trying to feed their families and the pickings are next to non existent. Hopefully contracts start to improve again, as it can only be better for all of us.

Great post.

Okay, understood, it is bad they do not pay hotel during training. It would be better if they paid 100% for a deadhead. But remember that even when United was at the top of the heap, they didn't pay for hotels in training.

Also understood about seperating the airline from the pilots as well.

After trying for months to find something and finally getting an offer, it felt a little like you were ****ing in my Wheaties. I will work on growing the thicker skin. Peace.

Anyone have an updated interview gouge? Thanks!

Joe,

Stick with XJT issues. For example, why doesn't XJT pay you during training? They only give you a per diem check until you finish all training successfully and begin IOE. You see they (XJT) pay for your hotel but they aren't paying YOU.

UA