Dhood84

We are our own worst enemies. Pilots demand better QOL all while taking $50-100k type ratings and running. Had a friend of mine (treats his pilots well in all aspects) hire a guy, send him to G650 initial then the guy bailed on the first trip, in the middle of it. They were in Australia and the guy had his company card, keys and phone in a envelope at the desk of the hotel for my buddy. This was after he booked first class back home to the states on the company card. So in essence, companies are scared of getting burned as well, it’s a double edge sword in today’s pilot market.

Like others have said, if it’s a good company and everything lines up for YOU, then a one year is nothing, anyone can stick it out a year.

DH

Mink

By the same token, one could argue that with training contracts generally being seen as a negative, even at "the good" companies, those companies that are sticking to them will have a harder time attracting people.

Why not just offer a good salary, good benefits, and some QOL enhancements, and retain your people in that manner?

Mink

There will always be 10%ers out there. Actions like that ^^ burn bridges, and what goes around comes around. But, in general, providing a good salary, good benefits and some QOL enhancements should be the tool used to retain talent - not a set of handcuffs like a training contract.

Red Forman

I would only sign a two year contract if my pay and benefits were guaranteed for two years.

billsaw

Obviously your buddy doesn't "treat them well in all aspects" for the experience level/pay/work required. If you fly a King Air and someone offers you 150k a year to galavant around the world in a G650 with no time off that may look appealing. But to those of us with the experience under our belt it's horrible. Not saying that was his deal there just that it's all relative based on your perspective.

Everyone has their own expectations on what they should be paid and management has their own on what should be paid. Capitalism then steps in and sorts it out.

At the moment that figure is getting larger and better QOL for the pilots and management/owners are struggling to accept that. Nobody, and I mean nobody with a half a brain is gonna quit a "good/great" (according to your buddies perspective on standards) job like that on the first trip in the middle of a trip with no notice. If they do it's one of two things. One your buddy isn't taking care of people as well as he thinks or they have mental issues. Then that speaks more toward your buddies (or his companies) discretion in hiring someone to operate a 65 million dollar jet with a billionaire onboard and dropping 100+ on a type up front.

Lets face it they need to be paying experienced pilots in the neighborhood of 250-300k and them working a hard time off schedule not some mickey mouse schedule where your off until your not kinda deal. And by schedule I mean half the time off. Like 1 week on 1 week off or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off not we will give you 8 days off a month..... When wee feel like it. And the sky is blue. And we see pigs flying. And oh you will know your schedule 2 weeks in advance until you don't.... That don't fly no more. At least for any pilots that are actual qualified to do that job and have any self respect. If they don't wanna do that I would be calling Flight Safety trying to get the volume discount cause that's what they will need.

Just think if you buddy treats his guys "well in all aspects" how "well" the pilot is being treated now that would cause him to do what he did. Unless of course he is crazy in which case they should look into people more.

It's kinda funny. All the time I hear of job offers being asked of me and my fellow coworkers. "Hey come work for us". Ok what does it pay and what's the schedule are the two main questions? Those answers most of the time are laughable but sometimes get close to reasonable. So when you politely say no then at some point they ask well what do you want? So I tell them. It is to much for one reason or another and the owner or company "will never do that". Yea it's those same people that instead of spending the money on a good qualified pilot they will blow money on training and turnover. Their choice.

billsaw

Exactly. Put it in escrow.....

billsaw

It's like the chicken or the egg. If EJM didn't have any turnover they wouldn't need that. But yet they have it. What can we deduce from that. Fact is EJM can be a very very good place to work. Depends on your owner.

I would have to argue also that training contracts are not going to get more prevalent. Maybe for a rookie with 500 hours trying to get into a Lear but those have been there for a long time.

Nobody I know that has experience is about to sign one. Haven't yet. Don't see it happening anytime soon. Why would you? If they are paying you enough and treating you well enough you won't want to leave...

Dhood84

I appreciate the post, but respectfully disagree with your assumption of my friends practices. The schedule, pay and bennies are in the top 5% for that airframe, nowhere near “average”. Just because I didn’t say “excellent / stellar” doesn’t imply anything. As far as your point of hiring the right people, even the craziest and most disrupting individual can get through the cracks. I was on the hiring board for one of my companies and interviewed hundreds of candidates. Let’s just say this, people are great actors when they want to be and sometimes it’s very hard to decipher the bull****.

DH

captjns

At the end of the day a CV is nothing more than a worthless 8 1/2 by 11 piece of paper with alpha numerics until you have a face to face interview with the candidate. A trained interviewer has the tools to verify the information on their CV is legitimate. Skype is the best to get the ball rolling. I ask questions including, but not limited about previous aircraft flown.

billsaw

I understand what you may think. But lets look at this from a different angle.

Either the guy was a whack job and slipped through the cracks. Or the compensation levels aren't what you think.

In my experience when a whack job slips through the cracks (at a good place of employment) 9 times out of 10 you have to fire him kicking and screaming out the door because they know they got a good deal going and do not want to lose it.

Now when a whack job gets hired at a fly by night sorta operation they are the ones that do exactly what you describe. Keys and phone at the front desk and CYA. Seen that a hundred times.

So if you wanna say he slipped through the cracks I can totally believe that. I 100% agree with you people can be great actors. I have flown with guys for 6 months until they let their true colors shine. But I have a hard time believing he left his keys and phone at the front desk mid trip at a top 5% job willingly. Those are the ones you have to fire then have conversations with the unemployment office about. Multiple times...
Just ask yourself who leaves a top 5% G650 job like that? Especially the crazies that know they won't be so lucky the next go round.


Unless of course what you and your friend may assume is top 5% really isn't. I am not looking at these gimmick salary surveys for my numbers.

You can post up what his basic package was and I'll tell you what I think (my opinion of course) but top 5% on a G650 is gonna be "at least" 250k+, business class international travel, only working half the time on a hard schedule. No on call. And that pay number could fluctuate up or down depending on a few other factors but not really down unless there are big bonuses and 401k type stuff involved.

Anyhow if your buddy is truly top 5 he will have no problems replacing that guy and I am sure it won't happen again.