We need a plan B for no vaccine.
#381
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30817-5.pdf
What this study basically says is that the mutation originated in China, which means this is not a new mutation. This "increased infectivity" mutation has been part of the outbreak since its origin. So it can't be increased if it was always increased.
Secondly, there's no confirmed studies that show definitive evidence of increased infectivity.
This is more about you latching onto an eye-catching headline than it is about legitimate science.
So I reiterate: the surges in cases globally (all hundreds of them) are more likely attributed to relaxed social gatherings than anything to do with a change in the virus.
Was that smart enough for you?
If G614 truly is more transmissible in equivalently mixing populations, then yes, the virus will be harder to control. But we cannot definitively answer this question at the moment
So yes, YOUR SOURCE, Three EPIDEMIOLOGISTS (not virologists) from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia Schools of Public Health have not been able to come to a decision yet about the mutation.
My three sources, Virologists at Scripps Institute, Research Biologists at the Los Alamos National Lab, and a reviewer for the New England Journal of Medicine believe the fact of the mutation increasing the infectivity is well established.
This is an excerpt from what one of my sources is saying:
Now, researchers in the U.S. and U.K. have queried the Global Initiative for Sharing All Influenza Data (GISAID) SARS-CoV-2 sequence database looking for changes in the spike protein genetic sequence of more than 0.3% from the Wuhan reference. Using this criterion, they identified a D614G amino acid change caused by a point mutation.
Examination of viral strains from Europe, North America, Australia, and Asia showed that the G614 variant increased in frequency over a several month period, even when D614 was initially dominant. In time-series analyses, 30 of 31 regions showed an increase in frequency of G614 over D614. Examination of viral sequences from 999 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 showed that the cycle threshold was lower, indicating a higher viral load with the G614 variant than with the D614 virus. Higher viral titers were seen in pseudovirus with the G614 variant than with the D614 variant. However, hospital outcomes were similar with either variant, and convalescent sera from 6 patients demonstrated equivalent or better neutralizing ability against G614 than against D614.
Examination of viral strains from Europe, North America, Australia, and Asia showed that the G614 variant increased in frequency over a several month period, even when D614 was initially dominant. In time-series analyses, 30 of 31 regions showed an increase in frequency of G614 over D614. Examination of viral sequences from 999 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 showed that the cycle threshold was lower, indicating a higher viral load with the G614 variant than with the D614 virus. Higher viral titers were seen in pseudovirus with the G614 variant than with the D614 variant. However, hospital outcomes were similar with either variant, and convalescent sera from 6 patients demonstrated equivalent or better neutralizing ability against G614 than against D614.
COMMENT
Although SARS-CoV-2 is not highly mutable, these data demonstrate that variants may arise quickly and have profound effects on the COVID-19 pandemic. Even though this variant appears to be more infectious, it did not appear to be more virulent, and, in limited assays, it was still inactivated by convalescent sera. However, continued surveillance and vigilance are required because we may not be as fortunate with the next variant.also for your perusal:
https://chapelboro.com/news/coronavi...virus-mutation
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30820-5.pdf
The title page:
#382
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
So yes, YOUR SOURCE, Three EPIDEMIOLOGISTS (not virologists) from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia Schools of Public Health have not been able to come to a decision yet about the mutation.
My three sources, Virologists at Scripps Institute, Research Biologists at the Los Alamos National Lab, and a reviewer for the New England Journal of Medicine believe the fact of the mutation increasing the infectivity is well established.
This is an excerpt from what one of my sources is saying
My three sources, Virologists at Scripps Institute, Research Biologists at the Los Alamos National Lab, and a reviewer for the New England Journal of Medicine believe the fact of the mutation increasing the infectivity is well established.
This is an excerpt from what one of my sources is saying
As to whether or not natural selection plays a part of which strain becomes more predominant has yet to be seen.
The takeaway:
Your assertion that this D614 strain is responsible for the recent spike in cases globally is not likely due to the fact that it's been present since it began.
#383
My broader and more relevant point is that this is not a new mutation. It's been spreading with the outbreak since its origin. So there's no new increased infectivity, because this strain has been in the mix the entire time.
As to whether or not natural selection plays a part of which strain becomes more predominant has yet to be seen.
The takeaway:
Your assertion that this D614 strain is responsible for the recent spike in cases globally is not likely due to the fact that it's been present since it began.
As to whether or not natural selection plays a part of which strain becomes more predominant has yet to be seen.
The takeaway:
Your assertion that this D614 strain is responsible for the recent spike in cases globally is not likely due to the fact that it's been present since it began.
Present, but it started as a point source mutation - and as the video from the Los Alamos lab demonstrates, the mutation has gradually become dominant. That means the mutation with the increased infectivity has gradually overtaken and surpassed the original virus because it infects more effectively. It doesn’t mean they STARTED OUT even. The mutation, ostensibly, started out in a single patient of the tens or hundreds of thousands of infected. It coukd scarcely be expected to dominate the numbers over night.
As to whether or not natural selection plays a part of which strain becomes more predominant has yet to be seen.
#384
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
Present, but it started as a point source mutation - and as the video from the Los Alamos lab demonstrates, the mutation has gradually become dominant. That means the mutation with the increased infectivity has gradually overtaken and surpassed the original virus because it infects more effectively. It doesn’t mean they STARTED OUT even. The mutation, ostensibly, started out in a single patient of the tens or hundreds of thousands of infected. It coukd scarcely be expected to dominate the numbers over night.
You ain’t a big Darwin fan, are you?
You ain’t a big Darwin fan, are you?
How it affects tangibly affects R0 has not been illustrated by you or any of your sources other than by assumption or estimation. And then you go a step further to assign this trait as the primary cause of the recent spike in cases. Which is more likely explained by behavior changes.
You still haven't said a word about that. Speaks volumes.
#385
Okay. This is all fine. Not disagreeing with you. This mutation exists, and it's possible that this could become the predominant strain over time.
How it affects tangibly affects R0 has not been illustrated by you or any of your sources other than by assumption or estimation. And then you go a step further to assign this trait as the primary cause of the recent spike in cases. Which is more likely explained by behavior changes.
You still haven't said a word about that. Speaks volumes.
How it affects tangibly affects R0 has not been illustrated by you or any of your sources other than by assumption or estimation. And then you go a step further to assign this trait as the primary cause of the recent spike in cases. Which is more likely explained by behavior changes.
You still haven't said a word about that. Speaks volumes.
#386
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/90049...hout-a-vaccine
An excerpt:
I'd be surprised if we're still wearing masks and 6-feet distancing in two or three years. I think the most likely outcome is that we'll eventually get to herd immunity. The best way to get to herd immunity is through a vaccine and some certain populations who have already been exposed or will be exposed.
And then the expectation I have is that this virus will actually become the next common cold coronavirus. What we don't know with these common cold coronaviruses is if they went through a similar transition period.
So, say something like OC43, which is a common cold coronavirus that was originally from cows. It's been historically reported that there was an outbreak associated with the transition of this virus from cows to humans that was very severe disease, and then after a few years, the virus became just the common cold. So in three to five years it may be that you're still getting COVID-19 in certain populations of people or every few years, but the expectation is hopefully that it'll just be a common cold and it's something that we can just each deal with and it won't lead to hospitalization and the shutting down of society
And then the expectation I have is that this virus will actually become the next common cold coronavirus. What we don't know with these common cold coronaviruses is if they went through a similar transition period.
So, say something like OC43, which is a common cold coronavirus that was originally from cows. It's been historically reported that there was an outbreak associated with the transition of this virus from cows to humans that was very severe disease, and then after a few years, the virus became just the common cold. So in three to five years it may be that you're still getting COVID-19 in certain populations of people or every few years, but the expectation is hopefully that it'll just be a common cold and it's something that we can just each deal with and it won't lead to hospitalization and the shutting down of society
#388
NOT COVID-19, but COVID-19s ‘big brother.’
Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus
- Chien-Te Tseng,
- Elena Sbrana,
- Naoko Iwata-Yoshikawa,
- Patrick C. Newman,
- Tania Garron,
- Robert L. Atmar,
- Clarence J. Peters,
- Robert B. Couch
Published: April 20, 2012
Background
Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) emerged in China in 2002 and spread to other countries before brought under control. Because of a concern for reemergence or a deliberate release of the SARS coronavirus, vaccine development was initiated. Evaluations of an inactivated whole virus vaccine in ferrets and nonhuman primates and a virus-like-particle vaccine in mice induced protection against infection but challenged animals exhibited an immunopathologic-type lung disease.Design
Four candidate vaccines for humans with or without alum adjuvant were evaluated in a mouse model of SARS, a VLP vaccine, the vaccine given to ferrets and NHP, another whole virus vaccine and an rDNA-produced S protein. Balb/c or C57BL/6 mice were vaccinated IM on day 0 and 28 and sacrificed for serum antibody measurements or challenged with live virus on day 56. On day 58, challenged mice were sacrificed and lungs obtained for virus and histopathology.Results
All vaccines induced serum neutralizing antibody with increasing dosages and/or alum significantly increasing responses. Significant reductions of SARS-CoV two days after challenge was seen for all vaccines and prior live SARS-CoV. All mice exhibited histopathologic changes in lungs two days after challenge including all animals vaccinated (Balb/C and C57BL/6) or given live virus, influenza vaccine, or PBS suggesting infection occurred in all. Histopathology seen in animals given one of the SARS-CoV vaccines was uniformly a Th2-type immunopathology with prominent eosinophil infiltration, confirmed with special eosinophil stains. The pathologic changes seen in all control groups lacked the eosinophil prominence.Conclusions
These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated.
#389
World Health Organization officials said AstraZeneca’s decision to delay the phase three trial of its experimental Covid-19 vaccine for safety reasons is a reminder that vaccine development is “not always a fast and a straight road.”
AstraZeneca’s announced Tuesday that it was placing a hold on stage three human trials for its potential vaccine, which it’s developing alongside the University of Oxford, after one of the participants showed signs of a potential serious adverse reaction, which was first reported by STAT News. The company told CNBC that the delay was a “routine action” whenever there’s an unexplained illness under investigation.
WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said Thursday that there’s no need to be “overly discouraged” by the news, adding that “these things happen.”
“There’s a protocol for what you do when something happens,” Swaminathan said during a news briefing at the organization’s Geneva headquarters. “If it’s a mild side effect, there are things to be done. If it’s major as it was in this case — it was a severe side event — and therefore the trial was halted. And again this is normal procedure. This is good clinical practice because safety is of the upmost, highest priority in any clinical trial.”
While the WHO hopes the vaccine’s trials will resume soon, it must wait for more information provided by a data and safety monitoring board, which will determine how to proceed with the trials, Swaminathan said.
“I think this is a good ... perhaps a wake-up call or a lesson for everyone to recognize the fact that there are ups and downs in research, there are ups and downs in clinical development and we have to be prepared for those,” she said. “We hope that things will be able to move on but again it depends. It depends on a lot, and we have to wait to see the details of what actually happened.”
AstraZeneca’s announced Tuesday that it was placing a hold on stage three human trials for its potential vaccine, which it’s developing alongside the University of Oxford, after one of the participants showed signs of a potential serious adverse reaction, which was first reported by STAT News. The company told CNBC that the delay was a “routine action” whenever there’s an unexplained illness under investigation.
WHO Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said Thursday that there’s no need to be “overly discouraged” by the news, adding that “these things happen.”
“There’s a protocol for what you do when something happens,” Swaminathan said during a news briefing at the organization’s Geneva headquarters. “If it’s a mild side effect, there are things to be done. If it’s major as it was in this case — it was a severe side event — and therefore the trial was halted. And again this is normal procedure. This is good clinical practice because safety is of the upmost, highest priority in any clinical trial.”
While the WHO hopes the vaccine’s trials will resume soon, it must wait for more information provided by a data and safety monitoring board, which will determine how to proceed with the trials, Swaminathan said.
“I think this is a good ... perhaps a wake-up call or a lesson for everyone to recognize the fact that there are ups and downs in research, there are ups and downs in clinical development and we have to be prepared for those,” she said. “We hope that things will be able to move on but again it depends. It depends on a lot, and we have to wait to see the details of what actually happened.”
#390
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,848
This doesn’t matter because those being polled
aren’t the ones who will be the first offered the vaccine.
Luckily medical personal will probably be one of the first offered the vaccine and I’m willing to bet a community that is supported by science, and not spin, will have high numbers of takers vs that poll. I also am willing to bet the elderly won’t be that picky when offered a vaccine early on. So once these groups take the vaccine, the average Joe 6 pack will be more open to getting it as well, as some time has passed and they have had some takers already.
aren’t the ones who will be the first offered the vaccine.
Luckily medical personal will probably be one of the first offered the vaccine and I’m willing to bet a community that is supported by science, and not spin, will have high numbers of takers vs that poll. I also am willing to bet the elderly won’t be that picky when offered a vaccine early on. So once these groups take the vaccine, the average Joe 6 pack will be more open to getting it as well, as some time has passed and they have had some takers already.
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