Downtime

Yeah so none of that was an answer to my question. You even started a thread we need a plan B but have yet to provide one that vaccines aren’t the answer for half a decade or more.

so let’s talk about a couple of things one this virus if it doesn’t kill does seem to be leaving quite a bit of residual morbidity in patients so a vaccine is likely to still be far better them natural infection.

malaria and corona viruses are not the same class to AED remain theoretical at this point. Malaria actually gets worse every time you get it vaccine or natural infection. If antibody enhancement is common with COVID it will occur naturally as well.

Since we have decided we are only gonna go for a Pharma savior from this virus a vaccine is gonna have to do. We can’t keep let this rampage through the community. So you have vaccine or extremely strict Wuhan style police enforced forced quarantine style lockdown. That’s it there is no other plan so pick one and live with it.

Excargodog

This thread is. Not about my opinions of a Plan B - or Answering your questions about it. It’s about issues with coronavirus development. I pointed out some. Real one. Do you care to comment about them?

Downtime

Its been answered so many times I have lost count. Without a vaccine the world is going back to normal unless we get a seriously effective therapeutic the world is not going back to normal. Also it should be added the effects found after millions have been vaccinated is in a phase 4 trail. That occurs after approval.

rickair7777

Hopefully, but that's not assured.

Downtime

I thought that is what the vaccine had shown so far. Some upper respiratory infections in animals but no advancement. Granted I gather these are animals and not humans but that seems to be the goal break the severe disease and move on.

rickair7777

Previous vaccines took that long because they waited to fully evaluate the FINANCIAL risk before proceeding to the next step. Additionally regulators were in no particular hurry to perform their parts of the process either.

Again, they are completing the full development programs. I had speculated early on that they *might* deploy a vaccine prior to completion of all clinical trials IF the pandemic turned out to be really awful. That didn't happen, and there's no indication that anyone (including China) is skipping anything safety related.

They're just doing as much in parallel as they can, and are not being held up by red tape or financial considerations at all.

I do understand all of that, having worked in the industry before. I also understand how governments (and private equity) are expediting the process... this is a manhattan project. I told everybody here exactly how they would do that in the very beginning of this. I understand how technical advances have allowed for the scientists to design vaccines in record times given the virus genome (a matter of hours in at least one case)

I expect multiple vaccines actually, none of which have to be 100% effective. Some combination of herd immunity, individual protection, and possibly reduced severity if you do get it (that last is possible but not assured).

Who says? After phase 3 trials and regulatory approval it's legal to vaccinate the public. Do vaccines now have to get reviewed and approved by some ethics panel after completing all other trials? Let me guess, the panel is chaired by Rachel Maddow?

They sure as hell "vaccinated" the economy for the benefit of 5% of the population. Euthanzed more like.

So how do you establish a "track record" anyway? In the industry that's called phase 4 trials.

Most of the things we vaccinate for are a serious health risk to a small subset of the population... vaccination programs are as much about herd immunity as individual protection.

Bottom line, all civilian vaccinations are optional at least in the US. So feel free to wait if you like. Many folks will do it so they can go back to work or school, if for no other reason.

Worst case, China will vaccinate all their folks at gunpoint and you can watch and see how it works out for them.


Not really. How does a 5-10 year development process make a vaccine safer? They still only do the same phase 1-3 trials they're doing with covid, in this case they're just paying big bucks to move the rest of the process along expeditiously. The regulators are not short-cutting safety, the pandemic is nowhere near bad enough for that, and even I agree with that.

Bottom line, there's risks and obstacles but there's no reason to believe that EVERY risk and obstacle will come to fruition. The people working on this know what all of the risks and obstacles are. I think you're underestimating human perseverance and stubborness on this one.

rickair7777

If it translates to humans, I expect it will in one or more vaccines.

Ideally you want a vaccine to prevent infection because that prevents further contagion and stops the spread.

A vaccine affect which reduces severity would be a consolation prize, since a patient with a mild case of covid would likely still be infectious to others. Time will tell.

galaxy flyer

There’s no vaccine for malaria, it’s a parasite.

Downtime

Sorry I meant Denague Fever.

AirBear

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/04/healt...=1596622315220

A third company has released study results showing it's COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective. 131 volunteers developed neutralizing antibodies at levels more than 4 times higher on average than persons who had recovered from the virus.