When do we hit herd immunity?
02-23-2021, 04:48 PM
#101
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by SocialistPilot
No we killed half a million people. And if we had listened to the libertarians of the world we probably would've killed 10 million. Personally I would prefer the New Zealand approach
PS....didn't Gavin Newsomes kids continue to go to school....private school, throughout the lockdowns?
Last edited by block30; 02-23-2021 at 05:02 PM.
02-23-2021, 04:48 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by Ronaldo
[
I guess Texas is out.
I guess Texas is out.
Texas had a once in 80-100 year cold snap for an area that literally never sees that kind of weather.
Maybe you should change your answer to California. California loses power every single summer for predictable and yearly heat waves, and that’s been going back decades. That progressive power grid management for you.
02-23-2021, 05:18 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by kaputt
Texas had a once in 80-100 year cold snap for an area that literally never sees that kind of weather.
"The February 2021 Arctic outbreak was indeed cold. It is one of the lowest five-day average temperatures experienced in Texas over the past 40 years. However, the December 1983 cold outbreak was as cold and long-lived as that of this past week. There was also a cold outbreak in early February 1985 on par with this past week. An examination of low temperatures shows the December 1989 and December 1983 outbreaks were slightly colder, on average, than February 2021.
While February 2021 was indeed unusually cold, it was not unprecedented. It’s more than semantics or meteorologists arguing about how many snowflakes fit on the head of a pin. Unprecedented means we’ve never seen this before. An unprecedented event feels like an “act of God,” something that was neither foreseeable nor preventable, and it’s therefore excusable if we are not prepared for such an event.
Put another way, “unprecedented” is an escape clause that can minimize accountability for anyone responsible for power, infrastructure, critical services or building codes, and makes it easier to dismiss any lessons learned. Unprecedented can be used as a “get out of disaster jail free” card. Periodic bouts of Arctic air in Texas were foreseeable and foreseen; this particular event was forecast accurately one to two weeks in advance. Moreover, this cold event was consistent with several Arctic episodes Texas has endured over the past four decades."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weath...e-foreseeable/
If you insist on playing the whole red state v blue state ****ing match, might as well get your facts right.
02-23-2021, 05:31 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by furloughfuntime
Dumb comment of the year award.
"The February 2021 Arctic outbreak was indeed cold. It is one of the lowest five-day average temperatures experienced in Texas over the past 40 years. However, the December 1983 cold outbreak was as cold and long-lived as that of this past week. There was also a cold outbreak in early February 1985 on par with this past week. An examination of low temperatures shows the December 1989 and December 1983 outbreaks were slightly colder, on average, than February 2021.
While February 2021 was indeed unusually cold, it was not unprecedented. It’s more than semantics or meteorologists arguing about how many snowflakes fit on the head of a pin. Unprecedented means we’ve never seen this before. An unprecedented event feels like an “act of God,” something that was neither foreseeable nor preventable, and it’s therefore excusable if we are not prepared for such an event.
Put another way, “unprecedented” is an escape clause that can minimize accountability for anyone responsible for power, infrastructure, critical services or building codes, and makes it easier to dismiss any lessons learned. Unprecedented can be used as a “get out of disaster jail free” card. Periodic bouts of Arctic air in Texas were foreseeable and foreseen; this particular event was forecast accurately one to two weeks in advance. Moreover, this cold event was consistent with several Arctic episodes Texas has endured over the past four decades."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weath...e-foreseeable/
If you insist on playing the whole red state v blue state ****ing match, might as well get your facts right.
"The February 2021 Arctic outbreak was indeed cold. It is one of the lowest five-day average temperatures experienced in Texas over the past 40 years. However, the December 1983 cold outbreak was as cold and long-lived as that of this past week. There was also a cold outbreak in early February 1985 on par with this past week. An examination of low temperatures shows the December 1989 and December 1983 outbreaks were slightly colder, on average, than February 2021.
While February 2021 was indeed unusually cold, it was not unprecedented. It’s more than semantics or meteorologists arguing about how many snowflakes fit on the head of a pin. Unprecedented means we’ve never seen this before. An unprecedented event feels like an “act of God,” something that was neither foreseeable nor preventable, and it’s therefore excusable if we are not prepared for such an event.
Put another way, “unprecedented” is an escape clause that can minimize accountability for anyone responsible for power, infrastructure, critical services or building codes, and makes it easier to dismiss any lessons learned. Unprecedented can be used as a “get out of disaster jail free” card. Periodic bouts of Arctic air in Texas were foreseeable and foreseen; this particular event was forecast accurately one to two weeks in advance. Moreover, this cold event was consistent with several Arctic episodes Texas has endured over the past four decades."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weath...e-foreseeable/
If you insist on playing the whole red state v blue state ****ing match, might as well get your facts right.
This cold snap went a little farther south than normal but, yea it gets cold in TX all the time. Ice storms happen every few years in Dallas. The nuclear plant that shut down was in a normally warm area south of Houston and was not hardened for cold weather. Bad management for sure but not unprecedented.
02-23-2021, 07:51 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
Originally Posted by Ronaldo
Looking at the worldometer COVID page I see Sweden at 23rd in the world based on deaths/1M population. The world average is 320/1M. Sweden has 1257/1M as of right now. So, yes their strategy was a partial success but they aren’t some shining example. There are tons of countries that had lockdowns, mask mandates and social distancing below them on the list.
Dr Tegnell said "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done." according to BBC.
As for immunity after infection we know people are getting reinfected we don’t know how long immunity lasts. It will almost certainly not last decades.
You are unlikely to convince me that a reasonable leader would have looked at this problem in January of 2020 and said “let it rip! Hide the old people. Hide the 56M Americans that have preexisting conditions.” We didn’t know if a vaccine would be effective, we didn’t know about long term health effects, we didn’t know about reinfection, we didn’t know what the mutation rate would be. Etc etc. I will point out that in the long run, you would expect the virus to mutate to a less lethal but more contagious variant. But before that point major lethal mutations are also possible. So infecting hundreds of millions of people and thereby encouraging mutation, seems irresponsible.
Dr Tegnell said "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done." according to BBC.
As for immunity after infection we know people are getting reinfected we don’t know how long immunity lasts. It will almost certainly not last decades.
You are unlikely to convince me that a reasonable leader would have looked at this problem in January of 2020 and said “let it rip! Hide the old people. Hide the 56M Americans that have preexisting conditions.” We didn’t know if a vaccine would be effective, we didn’t know about long term health effects, we didn’t know about reinfection, we didn’t know what the mutation rate would be. Etc etc. I will point out that in the long run, you would expect the virus to mutate to a less lethal but more contagious variant. But before that point major lethal mutations are also possible. So infecting hundreds of millions of people and thereby encouraging mutation, seems irresponsible.
02-23-2021, 07:57 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
Originally Posted by Seneca Pilot
You can't compare our medical capabilities, facilities, and staffing with those of Spain and Italy.lt.
02-23-2021, 08:12 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,030
Originally Posted by kaputt
Dumb comment of the year award.
Texas had a once in 80-100 year cold snap for an area that literally never sees that kind of weather.
Maybe you should change your answer to California. California loses power every single summer for predictable and yearly heat waves, and that’s been going back decades. That progressive power grid management for you.
Texas had a once in 80-100 year cold snap for an area that literally never sees that kind of weather.
Maybe you should change your answer to California. California loses power every single summer for predictable and yearly heat waves, and that’s been going back decades. That progressive power grid management for you.
02-24-2021, 06:51 AM
#108
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,292
Originally Posted by SocialistPilot
No we killed half a million people. And if we had listened to the libertarians of the world we probably would've killed 10 million. Personally I would prefer the New Zealand approach
02-24-2021, 05:58 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Position: NBC
Posts: 763
Originally Posted by Gordie H
Yes he did. Matt Pottinger, Trumps Deputy NSA gave an interesting interview on Face the Nation the other day...
Politics aside, big indictment of the WHO and public health services of the US government. All things considered, government response would have been the same regardless of who was President in January 2020. However, Trump did close travel from China, did mobilize supply chains, and did pin this on who was responsible (including China’s omissions). Bold and necessary actions praised by Pottinger.
Sounds like Fauci didn’t really understand this virus or how to respond, other than “shut everything down.” If you’re insinuating Trump should have listened to Pottinger rather than Fauci, then you’re in agreement that Fauci should have been shown the door after his HIV follies?
Of course, Margaret couldn’t help but bring “the Siege” into the conversation.
02-24-2021, 07:02 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Speed Select
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...ers-on-feb-21/
If you’re insinuating Trump should have listened to Pottinger rather than Fauci, then you’re in agreement that Fauci should have been shown the door after his HIV follies?
If you’re insinuating Trump should have listened to Pottinger rather than Fauci, then you’re in agreement that Fauci should have been shown the door after his HIV follies?
Not insinuating anything – one has to listen to him, as you did, and draw your own conclusions. He obviously knows much much more than was said in the interview. I feel like more is to come from him, one way or the other. He seemed cagey on certain things, like assigning individual blame (and I understand why) but on other areas he was crystal clear: He definitely is/was a believer in masks and asymptomatic spread. He also faulted the CDC without naming names.
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