Where did mask rule come from?
05-18-2021, 11:30 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,595
Where did mask rule come from?
Where did the rule requiring masks on flights originate from?
A Congressman points out that Congress never voted for it:
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...22860114694146
A Congressman points out that Congress never voted for it:
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...22860114694146
05-19-2021, 07:03 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Position: Airbus 320 Left
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by ugleeual
United inflight announcement says “federal law” requires mask wearing... of course that is not correct.
05-19-2021, 08:16 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 27
I just haven't understood since these announcements began how among virtually every single US 121 carrier's legal department, no one balked at the term "federal law". The day the announcement was published and mandated to be read by us, I laughed at the use (3 times) of "federal law". It isn't a law, never was a law, never will be a law. How and why the verbiage in these announcements was not screened and modified by any airline legal department is a question I'd be interested to hear a response to. Mandate or Order by the "federal executive branch" seems to be closer to appropriate.
05-19-2021, 08:19 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Wind checker
Posts: 763
Originally Posted by ugleeual
United inflight announcement says “federal law” requires mask wearing... of course that is not correct.
05-19-2021, 08:41 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Masks themselves are not federal law, they are a presidential (or state, local or corporate) mandate. Following “crew member instructions, lighted signs and placards” is not law but an FAA regulation. Failure to comply with masks, cell phones, etc., falls under the umbrella of that FAA regulation and warrants a fine of almost $14k per incident.
If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.
Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.
If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.
Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.
Last edited by Grumpyaviator; 05-19-2021 at 09:12 AM.
05-19-2021, 09:39 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Wind checker
Posts: 763
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator
Masks themselves are not federal law, they are a presidential (or state, local or corporate) mandate. Following “crew member instructions, lighted signs and placards” is not law but an FAA regulation. Failure to comply with masks, cell phones, etc., falls under the umbrella of that FAA regulation and warrants a fine of almost $14k per incident.
If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.
Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.
If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.
Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.
regulationsn. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures.
The FAA has exclusive executive authority to regulate aviation activities and proscribe regulations that accomplish that. Just because there is no jail time doesn’t lessen the ability of the FAA to regulate that activity either.
05-19-2021, 09:57 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,609
Originally Posted by hvydvr
Semantics. From law.com:
regulationsn. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures.
The FAA has exclusive executive authority to regulate aviation activities and proscribe regulations that accomplish that. Just because there is no jail time doesn’t lessen the ability of the FAA to regulate that activity either.
regulationsn. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures.
The FAA has exclusive executive authority to regulate aviation activities and proscribe regulations that accomplish that. Just because there is no jail time doesn’t lessen the ability of the FAA to regulate that activity either.
05-19-2021, 10:11 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by hvydvr
Federal law requires you to comply with the directions of crewmembers on the aircraft. The announcement tells you to wear your mask. A crewmember gave you an instruction.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
