Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-18-2021, 11:30 AM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
SonicFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,080
Question Where did mask rule come from?

Where did the rule requiring masks on flights originate from?

A Congressman points out that Congress never voted for it:

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...22860114694146
SonicFlyer is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:54 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
flightmedic01's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Back to da “Bus soon, thank GOD!
Posts: 676
Default

It’s not a “law”. It was an Executive Order made by the Biden Administration. 🤦🏼‍♂️. Complete buffoonery, but fighting it would be like ****ing up a rope.
flightmedic01 is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:56 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
ugleeual's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 1,747
Default

United inflight announcement says “federal law” requires mask wearing... of course that is not correct.
ugleeual is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 07:03 AM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Descendto450's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Position: Airbus 320 Left
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugleeual View Post
United inflight announcement says “federal law” requires mask wearing... of course that is not correct.
Every airline is saying that. Here at B6 they have the same announcement. It isn’t a federal law or even a regulation. It’s a EO and will be lifted soon enough..
Descendto450 is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 08:16 AM   #5  
Line Holder
 
wt7566's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 25
Default

I just haven't understood since these announcements began how among virtually every single US 121 carrier's legal department, no one balked at the term "federal law". The day the announcement was published and mandated to be read by us, I laughed at the use (3 times) of "federal law". It isn't a law, never was a law, never will be a law. How and why the verbiage in these announcements was not screened and modified by any airline legal department is a question I'd be interested to hear a response to. Mandate or Order by the "federal executive branch" seems to be closer to appropriate.
wt7566 is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 08:19 AM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
hvydvr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Wind checker
Posts: 451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugleeual View Post
United inflight announcement says “federal law” requires mask wearing... of course that is not correct.
Federal law requires you to comply with the directions of crewmembers on the aircraft. The announcement tells you to wear your mask. A crewmember gave you an instruction.
hvydvr is online now  
Old 05-19-2021, 08:41 AM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Grumpyaviator's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,133
Default

Masks themselves are not federal law, they are a presidential (or state, local or corporate) mandate. Following “crew member instructions, lighted signs and placards” is not law but an FAA regulation. Failure to comply with masks, cell phones, etc., falls under the umbrella of that FAA regulation and warrants a fine of almost $14k per incident.

If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.

Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.

Last edited by Grumpyaviator; 05-19-2021 at 09:12 AM.
Grumpyaviator is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:39 AM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
hvydvr's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Wind checker
Posts: 451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator View Post
Masks themselves are not federal law, they are a presidential (or state, local or corporate) mandate. Following “crew member instructions, lighted signs and placards” is not law but an FAA regulation. Failure to comply with masks, cell phones, etc., falls under the umbrella of that FAA regulation and warrants a fine of almost $14k per incident.

If you violate an FAR you’re fined and go through an appellate process without arrest. If you break a law you’re arrested, tried, and if convicted sentenced. If you violate an FAR there is no arrest, that’s why LE does not intervene unless it escalates to a disturbance or assault or something in their jurisdiction. I’ve experienced this numerous times recently, where LE did not take action after landing because an actual law was not violated. The additional problem with some carriers is open seating. Seat assignments can’t be used to ID passengers. When they walk off the plane and see LE won’t take action they won’t give the CSA their name to record the incident or prevent further boarding.

Similarly, it’s not against the law for an intoxicated passenger to board a plane, but it is an FAR violation if an air carrier knowingly boards or transports a passenger that appears intoxicated. That’s why LE will not take action against a drunk passenger unless there is some sort of public disturbance or assault. Only one time did LE arrest a drunk passenger on my flight, because the town we landed in had a public intoxication law and as soon as she deplaned she was breaking the law in their jurisdiction, as well as her drunk driving boyfriend who arrived to pick her up.
Semantics. From law.com:

regulationsn. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures.

The FAA has exclusive executive authority to regulate aviation activities and proscribe regulations that accomplish that. Just because there is no jail time doesn’t lessen the ability of the FAA to regulate that activity either.
hvydvr is online now  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:57 AM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
ugleeual's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 1,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvydvr View Post
Semantics. From law.com:

regulationsn. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. One problem is that regulations are not generally included in volumes containing state statutes or federal laws but often must be obtained from the agency or located in volumes in law libraries and not widely distributed. The regulation-making process involves hearings, publication in governmental journals which supposedly give public notice, and adoption by the agency. The process is best known to industries and special interests concerned with the subject matter, but only occasionally to the general public. Federal regulations are adopted in the manner designated in the Administrative Procedure Act (A.P.A.) and states usually have similar procedures.

The FAA has exclusive executive authority to regulate aviation activities and proscribe regulations that accomplish that. Just because there is no jail time doesn’t lessen the ability of the FAA to regulate that activity either.
The mask mandate is not a law. Laws require an elected body to pass them by a vote and then signed into law by another elected rep (mayor, governor, president). The EO only defines a policy that defines an existing regulation that does not specifically address the topic... it’s regulatory in nature and can only charge civil penalties which will probably not hold any water if challenged ... again, because it’s not a law. The only real teeth is airline companies having the ability to restrict violators from flying on their airlines if they refuse... but of course they’d prefer the government to step in so they can appear impartial.
ugleeual is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 10:11 AM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
100LL's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvydvr View Post
Federal law requires you to comply with the directions of crewmembers on the aircraft. The announcement tells you to wear your mask. A crewmember gave you an instruction.
If a crew member told you to drink a mysterious blue drink from a water bottle in an effort to make the skies “safer” would you do it?
100LL is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lockdown and Civil Unrest Discussion massgflight COVID19 788 06-04-2020 05:11 PM
FDX - When would you ... TonyC Cargo 189 04-23-2013 10:35 PM
IPA Comments to FAA Regarding Part 117 Naven Cargo 26 02-14-2013 10:49 AM
Over 60 Check Airman and Instructors Coming Back Too? Brown Major 115 12-27-2007 07:47 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:07 AM.