Vaccine mandate
10-10-2021, 10:31 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by WhipWhitaker
No one has asymptotic yellow fever. I have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being adversely affected by carona. That being said, I am vaccinated, but... forcing anyone to make a medical choice by coercion, mandate, force etc is SICK. You’d be singing a different tune if your wife’s employer told her she had to be on birth control or get an abortion just to keep her job.
Symptomatic and asymptomatic spread of a virus does not compare to birth control or abortion (neither of things spread from her to anyone else).
I don’t see the argument. No one really forced you. Technically your kids could remain unvaxxed. But then don’t expect schools to take them in. Similarly, you can remain unvaxxed. Just don’t expect your airline to keep you in the flight deck. I just don’t get it. From birth we took vaccines to prevent the bad stuff. How is it different now? As pilots we take a medical exam every 6-12 months. There are requirements for this job. A job is not a right. So no rights are being violated. No one owes you a jet seat to fly in.
10-11-2021, 07:45 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Position: 737
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Symptomatic and asymptomatic spread of a virus does not compare to birth control or abortion (neither of things spread from her to anyone else).
I don’t see the argument. No one really forced you. Technically your kids could remain unvaxxed. But then don’t expect schools to take them in. Similarly, you can remain unvaxxed. Just don’t expect your airline to keep you in the flight deck. I just don’t get it. From birth we took vaccines to prevent the bad stuff. How is it different now? As pilots we take a medical exam every 6-12 months. There are requirements for this job. A job is not a right. So no rights are being violated. No one owes you a jet seat to fly in.
I don’t see the argument. No one really forced you. Technically your kids could remain unvaxxed. But then don’t expect schools to take them in. Similarly, you can remain unvaxxed. Just don’t expect your airline to keep you in the flight deck. I just don’t get it. From birth we took vaccines to prevent the bad stuff. How is it different now? As pilots we take a medical exam every 6-12 months. There are requirements for this job. A job is not a right. So no rights are being violated. No one owes you a jet seat to fly in.
10-11-2021, 09:31 AM
#23
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,504
Required by law?
What law? OSHA hasn’t yet come up with that rule. And of the six times in the past 50 years they have announced an emergency temporary standard, the courts have thrown out five of them.
This is a contract negotiable item.
What law? OSHA hasn’t yet come up with that rule. And of the six times in the past 50 years they have announced an emergency temporary standard, the courts have thrown out five of them.
This is a contract negotiable item.
10-11-2021, 12:09 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 251
At this point we needn't be concerned with the potential OSHA rule. What we have is a company decision getting out in front of a DoD contract provision, which will be in new contracts and contract extensions, due to an executive order.
The company is guessing that the pain of losing DoD contracts will be less than the pushback from pilots. I don't envy the position management is put in. I also don't praise them, as they should be suing to fight against this kind of thing and they are not, to my knowledge.
Knowing that calculus, if the company loses 5 pilots, the decision to impose the mandate is the right business decision, civil liberties aside. However, if 50 pilots were to say "no", then the pendulum would swing far in the other direction. In that case, it would be better for the company to keep the pilots and drop the DoD contract, without which we will have no problem surviving, we have plenty of work without it. It really is that simple. And we need to put some effort into communication (if there is a "we"). I intend to try to contribute to that end in the coming days. Just sitting back and hoping the union will work something out or praying for the courts to come to our rescue is not enough.
Thanks to the fellow who posted the link to usfreedomflyers.org. If there are other efforts to organize and communicate our position effectively to the company and the union that you guys/gals are aware of please let me know. Also feel free to pm me if you want be included in a group pushing back against the mandate.
The company is guessing that the pain of losing DoD contracts will be less than the pushback from pilots. I don't envy the position management is put in. I also don't praise them, as they should be suing to fight against this kind of thing and they are not, to my knowledge.
Knowing that calculus, if the company loses 5 pilots, the decision to impose the mandate is the right business decision, civil liberties aside. However, if 50 pilots were to say "no", then the pendulum would swing far in the other direction. In that case, it would be better for the company to keep the pilots and drop the DoD contract, without which we will have no problem surviving, we have plenty of work without it. It really is that simple. And we need to put some effort into communication (if there is a "we"). I intend to try to contribute to that end in the coming days. Just sitting back and hoping the union will work something out or praying for the courts to come to our rescue is not enough.
Thanks to the fellow who posted the link to usfreedomflyers.org. If there are other efforts to organize and communicate our position effectively to the company and the union that you guys/gals are aware of please let me know. Also feel free to pm me if you want be included in a group pushing back against the mandate.
10-11-2021, 10:02 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by nibake
At this point we needn't be concerned with the potential OSHA rule. What we have is a company decision getting out in front of a DoD contract provision, which will be in new contracts and contract extensions, due to an executive order.
The company is guessing that the pain of losing DoD contracts will be less than the pushback from pilots. I don't envy the position management is put in. I also don't praise them, as they should be suing to fight against this kind of thing and they are not, to my knowledge.
Knowing that calculus, if the company loses 5 pilots, the decision to impose the mandate is the right business decision, civil liberties aside. However, if 50 pilots were to say "no", then the pendulum would swing far in the other direction. In that case, it would be better for the company to keep the pilots and drop the DoD contract, without which we will have no problem surviving, we have plenty of work without it. It really is that simple. And we need to put some effort into communication (if there is a "we"). I intend to try to contribute to that end in the coming days. Just sitting back and hoping the union will work something out or praying for the courts to come to our rescue is not enough.
Thanks to the fellow who posted the link to usfreedomflyers.org. If there are other efforts to organize and communicate our position effectively to the company and the union that you guys/gals are aware of please let me know. Also feel free to pm me if you want be included in a group pushing back against the mandate.
The company is guessing that the pain of losing DoD contracts will be less than the pushback from pilots. I don't envy the position management is put in. I also don't praise them, as they should be suing to fight against this kind of thing and they are not, to my knowledge.
Knowing that calculus, if the company loses 5 pilots, the decision to impose the mandate is the right business decision, civil liberties aside. However, if 50 pilots were to say "no", then the pendulum would swing far in the other direction. In that case, it would be better for the company to keep the pilots and drop the DoD contract, without which we will have no problem surviving, we have plenty of work without it. It really is that simple. And we need to put some effort into communication (if there is a "we"). I intend to try to contribute to that end in the coming days. Just sitting back and hoping the union will work something out or praying for the courts to come to our rescue is not enough.
Thanks to the fellow who posted the link to usfreedomflyers.org. If there are other efforts to organize and communicate our position effectively to the company and the union that you guys/gals are aware of please let me know. Also feel free to pm me if you want be included in a group pushing back against the mandate.
10-13-2021, 10:48 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by jacinth
a vaccine generates immunity. This does no such thing. You can still be infected and transmitting with just as high or higher viral load than some unvaccinated person. Ie. You have no immunity. You have a therapeutic that according to uk data lasts 4-6 months, but comes with a much higher risk profile than standard and long term consequences unknown. Further it appears to cause spread and this last wave all over the world appears to be caused by the vaccine. Even remote countries like mongolia who had nothing going on; the moment their vax campaign started, cases spiked. There is no correlation between vax rates and reduced cases, hartford study. And we can see it in the actual data. Vermont, maine, washington, oregon, alaska, hawaii. Further, this massive push in the midst of viral spread risks viral escape causing variants that normally would be less severe to be more severe. The injection causes a spike protein (which is toxic) to enable antibodies based on only one segment of a virus from two years ago. Because it’s a non immunizing injection these antibodies though have the potential to carry the virus into the cell. We don’t have the data to mandate these. What data we do have is not good. We are being lead by people who are corrupt, insane, and foolish.
10-14-2021, 12:22 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by jacinth
A vaccine generates immunity. This does no such thing. You can still be infected and transmitting with just as high or higher viral load than some unvaccinated person. Ie. You have no immunity. You have a therapeutic that according to UK data lasts 4-6 months, but comes with a much higher risk profile than standard and long term consequences unknown. Further it appears to cause spread and this last wave all over the world appears to be caused by the vaccine. Even remote countries like Mongolia who had nothing going on; the moment their vax campaign started, cases spiked. There is no correlation between vax rates and reduced cases, Hartford study. And we can see it in the actual data. Vermont, Maine, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, Hawaii. Further, This massive push in the midst of viral spread risks viral escape causing variants that normally would be less severe to be more severe. The injection causes a spike protein (which is toxic) to enable antibodies based on only one segment of a virus from two years ago. Because it’s a non immunizing injection These antibodies though have the potential to carry the virus into the cell. We don’t have the data to mandate these. What data we do have is not good. We are being lead by people who are corrupt, insane, and foolish.
Complete and utter garbage misinformation and fake news.
Let me guess the three news stations you play at home: Fox, OAN, Newsmax.
10-14-2021, 07:06 PM
#30
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by nibake
Well, here it is. It hit me that it was inevitable when Southwest announced it. Once it's at critical mass then it's easy for everyone else to fall in line.
And what a cowardly move. A Friday evening email with no name on it? Also, no real information other than "you must be vaccinated by November 24th." Where is the leadership in that? Oh, by the way, you need to get vaccinated. If you are a young male and you get myocarditis, that will be your problem. Ok? Thanks.
It will be interesting to see what people do. I don't have high hopes or expectations but a lot of you know this is unacceptable and a line needs to be drawn in a sand. This is a hot topic and I'm surely stepping into a hornet's nest by discussing it, but avoiding the topic isn't really a choice anymore, is it?
I'll be the first one here to say that I am a "no."
And what a cowardly move. A Friday evening email with no name on it? Also, no real information other than "you must be vaccinated by November 24th." Where is the leadership in that? Oh, by the way, you need to get vaccinated. If you are a young male and you get myocarditis, that will be your problem. Ok? Thanks.
It will be interesting to see what people do. I don't have high hopes or expectations but a lot of you know this is unacceptable and a line needs to be drawn in a sand. This is a hot topic and I'm surely stepping into a hornet's nest by discussing it, but avoiding the topic isn't really a choice anymore, is it?
I'll be the first one here to say that I am a "no."
Well, i’m for sure there’s a line of vaccinated regional guys/gals ready to take your job, just saying. Job protection is everything these days. Good luck in the hold out
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