rickair7777

There has been twisting of semantics on both sides.

Generally, for *practical* purposes a "vaccine" is something you get in advance of exposure to reduce risk of infection (or risk from infection, which is very applicable in this case). A "vaccine" works by stimulating the immune system in advance of exposure and requires some lead time (typically two weeks).

A "therapeutic" is generally pharma that you get after onset of illness, or administered after exposure before onset to minimize risk. You could even use a therapy before exposure if you're expecting possible exposure (example some HIV drugs, or some covid meds like MCA).

Fundamentally, regardless of what some online dictionary says, a "vaccine" requires lead time to stimulate your immune system. A therapy would generally be expected to function immediately and would be used for known illness, known exposure, or possibly as a short-term preventative in the case of anticipated possible exposure.

For example, MCA's count as a "therapy" because they start working immediately and don't rely on a weeks-long immune-system learning curve.

Whether a pharma's functionality is "vaccine" or "therapeutic" has nothing to do with efficacy and everything to do with mechanism and response time.

CX500T

It's more of a prophylactic like taking Malarone or Doxycycline to prevent malaria.

It usually kills it before it takes root, or keeps it from getting bad.

The Covid Vaccines seem to work more like that than a common vax such as measles. Got measles vax. Been around people with measles. Didn't get measles.

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Mesabah

The vaccines were the absolute worst way to treat this pandemic. MCA's provide the same life saving protection the vaccines do, by suppressing the disregulated immune response, which is what is actually the deadly part of a covid infection. Also, the existing stock of MCAs from the previous outbreak decades ago, are highly effective in treating illness. The bottom line is that not treating people early is what killed them, not the virus.

rickair7777

Doxy and malarone fight the invader directly. They do not stimulate your immune system to do that. Technically they interfere with growth and reproduction of the invader, as opposed to actually killing it outright.

You're confusing efficacy with mechanism again. Vaccines stimulate the immune system to do the work, they don't do the work themselves.

CX500T

I'm basing prophylactic on the if I stop taking this (aka no boosters every X months) I basically revert back to unvaccinated status.

I'm immunzed against a lot of things. Never had a mild case of them either. Just never got them. And I've spent a ton of time in places where Yellow Fever is endemic. I've also had plenty of chances to get tetanus due to jobs prior to here. Lots of rusty metal and human waste working as a Hull Tech on a ship.

Something every 5-10 years.. That's a booster. Taking something every 3-4 months? That's a prophylactic.

rickair7777

Hypothetically if you needed a booster every week (impractical of course) it would still be a vaccine because it stimulates your immune system. That has nothing whatsoever to do with efficacy and duration, which are of course legit subjects of debate and discussion.

Also I believe the efficacy against covid 1.0 would be at least one year, or more. The problem was the new variants, not the original vaccines.

skywatch

Too bad there is no evidence to back that up, as we quit trials after a short period of time and stopped tracking participants. Cause science.

rickair7777

I didn't hear that, they normally actually stage 3 trials like that for several years. Also typical that many trial participants stop responding so the N number dwindles over time.

But why in the world would the FDA let them stop trials early???

Better show me a link, and not from the extremist blogosphere.


https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN2AC2G3

skywatch

From November 20 press release from Pfizer- regarding the Conclusion of phase three vaccine trials.

”The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020.”

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...vid-19-vaccine

I know there are continuing studies, but even these do t seem to focus on long timelines?

”longer-term analysis of the safety and efficacy of their COVID-19 vaccine in individuals 12 through 15 years of age. The updated findings from the companies’ pivotal Phase 3 trial show that a two-dose series of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine (30-µg per dose) was 100% effective against COVID-19, measured seven days through over four months after the second dose.”

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...vid-19-vaccine

rickair7777

That just means they acquired the desired data on efficacy. The safety part of the trial continues, at least into 2023. They can also monitor for long-term efficacy and perhaps they do that, although the waters would get muddied by the various variants, unless they specifically analyzed for which variant for each participant who got covid.

That last would be hard, since they'd have to get to them while they still had virus present with a specific molecular test... that's going to be a lab test, not a home test.