trustbutverify

And there it is. Like clockwork. I was wondering how long it would take and sure enough, it came very quickly. The part quoted above in red font represents a mindset that needs to stop. We fail before we even begin because that defeatist mindset is entrenched in this (and probably other) pilot groups. When your company has billions to blow on fuel hedges, stock buy backs, and ___(fill in the blank), WE don't have to pay for everything because THEY can clearly afford it.

The company chooses to DH us all over the planet more and more. IF safety is the top priority, I ask this simple question: who will be better rested, a pilot stuck in a middle seat of coach or one in a comfortable premium seat?

worstpilotever

The solution to this is to call in fatigued after a long dh in the middleseat last row of the plane. Seems fatiguing to me.

DALMD88FO

Too funny. You have no idea about my mindset. If you don't think everyone of us wants that DH language then you are mistaken.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, we have a contract with the company and in that contract is the language for DH. We negotiated that and yes everything in there costs money.

So do you have some magic ability to make the company change the DH language just because we want it changed? I hear a lot of guys saying exactly what you say above but have no real path to achieving it. Give me the legal path to doing so and I'll fall right in behind you, until then yes we would have to give up something in order to achieve the UAL language. That is a history lesson not crystal ball stuff.

Yes the company is making money hand over fist and we were a large part of that, however they are a business and they will not just give something away, especially if they feel that it has value to us.

Gunfighter

Way to double down on the defeatist attitude.

We can negotiate for a larger piece of the pie. We can demonstrate how the ROI on the $12B in buybacks was not an efficient use of investor capital and the money would have been better spent on improving the contract and working conditions, thereby attracting a larger pool of candidates to the airline. Our internal numbers can be quantified into monetary impact to show lower hiring costs and reduced training costs when pulling from a larger pool with higher qualifications. We have already documented that we have to interview more pilots to get one hired and on property, once on property, the training footprint is expanding slightly with larger numbers of repeated training events. We can propose for improvements to the contract that will attract a larger pool and reduce hiring and training costs. Win/Win vs the defeatist mindset we are plagued with.

DALMD88FO

Too funny. I say what do you want to give up for that and I'm a defeatist. You wrote that we can negotiate a larger piece and some how you think you are a genius. Negotiations are give and take. Last I heard we are not having a problem filling our classes. If that day comes then maybe we can dictate terms which is what you are saying.

Hank Kingsley

The cost to upgrade DHing is miniscule. The truth is that Delta has always had a problem with where we sit when resting or not sitting in a control seat. Last in the industry to get a jumpseat. It's the anti union mindset and not wanting the appearance of special privilege to the pilots, period.

badflaps

They once had a safety video that blamed low sugar for a T.O. accident. (Morning) Several students pointed out that DAL had morning departures that invited this type of problem. The video disappeared shortly after.

Gunfighter

Yes, that is the definition of a defeatist. You have already conceded before making an attempt at improvement.

I don't claim to be a master negotiator of billion dollar contracts, most of the contracts I've negotiated are between $1M-$100M. Even though my experience is in much smaller matters than the PWA, I can assure you starting with your approach ensures a better outcome for the other side of the table. I am grateful anytime the other party comes to the table thinking they have to give up something.

gzsg

It would behoove management to take care of these small items to build good will.

Their challenges going forward are unprecedented.

Was Richard right to say we wouldn't get a penny more?

Was he right to bluff on cancelling jet orders?

Underestimating us was an epic mistake.

Will management make the same mistake?

Seems to me updating the deadhead language, adding crew meals, increasing pretraining self teaching pay, etc. Would save them in the long run.

Or they can replay the failed TA.

sailingfun

No idea where he came up with the having to interview more pilots for each on hired. That data is published monthly and we are hiring the highest percentage of pilots interviewed that I have ever seen.