Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 2732086)

A reference was asked for and I provided it. You did watch the part where it said the new type DB was NOT subject to forfeiture in a bankruptcy?

Denny

Originally Posted by crewdawg (Post 2732079)

By you I assume you mean a few random/loud internet posters. In my discussions with lots of new hires on the line and in my squadron, most are open the idea. As I said in the very post you quoted, I'm actually not against some form other retirement vehicles, even a DB. I do think us "young, selfish guys," are right to be wary of such a product given the state of pensions in the U.S. today. My very own family is littered with lost pensions that were "promised."

I like the idea of a guaranteed base income to supplement my 401k/Roth IRA/rentals, but it's going to have to be something more solid than a promise. I keep hearing the laws have changed wrt pensions but the above linked video is woefully inadequate wrt proving times are different. I've got a tax attorney friend doing some research for me on the subject.

Being wary of this is a bit more of a pragmatic apporach to a new retirement vehicle, especially since it's one that's already been taken from so many. But to fold your arms and threaten to sell scope is childish and selfish. Again, us "young and selfish types," have been vastly outnumbered by the "old and selfless" types in the last two contracts and yet it wasn't an important enough of an item. You still outnumber us and if it's important enough, you'll win hands down. But to get mad at us for not backing something you yourselves haven't fought...who are the childish ones here?

Originally Posted by CX500T (Post 2732109)

It's roughly on the order of $2M in the account per $100k annual payout, assuming 5% yield.

Over a 20 year "vesting" that's 100k a year.

Don't think you're gonna get that out of Delta.

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Originally Posted by CX500T (Post 2732109)

It's roughly on the order of $2M in the account per $100k annual payout, assuming 5% yield.

Over a 20 year "vesting" that's 100k a year.

Don't think you're gonna get that out of Delta.

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Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2732117)

I just ran an annuity calculator. The number is closer to $1.4M, and it is $8500/month which is slightly more than $100,000/year If you want to cut the guaranteed payout to 10 years or less, it can be had for under $1M. $1.6M gets your beneficiaries a lump sum payout when you kick off. And that assumes a one time payout. I think we could get $1.6 over a career.

Originally Posted by m3113n1a1 (Post 2732124)

Yes, but most people would rather have that 1.6M in their own investments such as index funds or real estate. I'm all for something in the contract that helps out the guys leaving in the next few years though, you guys have had a rough ride.

Originally Posted by CX500T (Post 2732129)

Is that factoring in time value of money? Because x percent of FAE today is going to be some multiple of that on the payout date.

Prime example it's usually 50% increase per 20 years. Ballpark using historical DOL CPI numbers.

I'm trying to get a Fermi Estimation of is this plausible.

Remember, a lot of us lost generation types aren't going to have much more than 20 years to pay in. Some less than that.

Also, the real "scary number" as far as overall cost is funding it for those with less than 10 years to go.

I need $2M in to get $100k/yr out in today's money. I have 24 years to get that in assuming retirement age stays where it is.

Granted I'm just doing back of the envelope math on my HP48 emulator on my phone in the SLC lounge waiting on a delayed DH, but I think the true "holy crap this is going to be billions to fund in under 5 years" is trying to fund an annuity for the 55 plus crowd in the 0-10 year time frame.







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