While we worked for 20,000 dollars a year pre-tax flying Delta passengers in Delta painted metal so your company could stay afloat. I'd say the sacrifice is tilted, wouldn't you?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to my Delta family. :)

Right. Everybody has a story.

I hope you have a happy and prosperous New Year as well.

“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

It’s not something “new.” It’s something that was distress terminated thru no fault of our own. A significant portion of this seniority list would just like WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY EARNED back. Welcome to the legal system.

Denny

Getting something new?


Seriously Clark?



Did you know that 70% of lottery winners go bankrupt? Do you know WHY?


You won the lottery.

This is typical. They are unwilling to learn from the mistakes of the past. They THINK they are...

Yep, it’s all in the eye of the beholder. Those of us who were furloughed view those 20k/year jobs as once somebody’s 100+k/year jobs. Someone has to volunteer to do the job for 20k. No one forces them.

It does bring up the point that scope (top and bottom) is the most important thing we have. There’s no paycheck or retirement to be had when someone else is doing your job.

No, I wouldn't. I am so happy you are here, but despite all my efforts, I am struggling to begin to respect your opinion.. Even though I understand how much 20K/year have hurt your feelings.
This argument has been discussed for a dozen of years, but if you need to hear it again, there it goes, feel free to read if you'd like :)

You knew it and you chose it with a big smile on your face letting your CFI to expire and bragging to girls how you are an airline pilot, remember?

Despite the Delta tickets and paint and whatever they told you during your regional interview - you didn't work for Delta then, therefore you sacrificed nothing so that Delta could "stay afloat". You simply worked the job you interviewed for and wanted. And to be brutally honest 20K was only the first year pay, wasn't it?

Any business lawyer would tell you that your sacrifice (part of a well known package) was given on behalf of your regional (the name on your pay checks), not Delta.

So it's silly to claim something you didn't earn and elevate yourself to the level of sacrifice of furloughs and a 52% paycut/pension gone others have taken.
I really hope you wouldn't have to experience that just so you'd know what THAT sacrifice feels like and if it's tilted or not! ;)

PS To distinguish yourself from the crowd you should have brought (this exact wording in your post) up during your Delta interview! I bet you didn't, did you?

By you I assume you mean a few random/loud internet posters. In my discussions with lots of new hires on the line and in my squadron, most are open the idea. As I said in the very post you quoted, I'm actually not against some form other retirement vehicles, even a DB. I do think us "young, selfish guys," are right to be wary of such a product given the state of pensions in the U.S. today. My very own family is littered with lost pensions that were "promised."

I like the idea of a guaranteed base income to supplement my 401k/Roth IRA/rentals, but it's going to have to be something more solid than a promise. I keep hearing the laws have changed wrt pensions but the above linked video is woefully inadequate wrt proving times are different. I've got a tax attorney friend doing some research for me on the subject.

Being wary of this is a bit more of a pragmatic apporach to a new retirement vehicle, especially since it's one that's already been taken from so many. But to fold your arms and threaten to sell scope is childish and selfish. Again, us "young and selfish types," have been vastly outnumbered by the "old and selfless" types in the last two contracts and yet it wasn't an important enough of an item. You still outnumber us and if it's important enough, you'll win hands down. But to get mad at us for not backing something you yourselves haven't fought...who are the childish ones here?

A reference was asked for and I provided it. You did watch the part where it said the new type DB was NOT subject to forfeiture in a bankruptcy?

Denny

I'm not sure any company would be interested in financials that can't be altered.