I used to work 10-11 days at a regional. So no, 14 ain’t that great. GS are fine, it’s the accompanying high LCW’s that exist with the need to cover more flying with less pilots. These cost days off per month. It’s the issue that reserve coverage is far below what’s needed so schedules can’t be tweaked. There are a lot of pilots who enjoy the nonstop flow of green, but there are also a lot who desire more schedule flexibility.

Not doubting you but, is that normal? Not being from the RJ world but I have a hard time believing that model would survive.

For perspective could you elaborate.

Did you have any benefits?

Are you on your initial plane and position since being hired?

You flew RJ's, worked 10-11 days a month and made____$ ?
Flying for delta and working 14 days a month you make______$ ?

Did you have to resign your seniority number? Maybe it's not too late

Ha..classic!

Typical response. Probably more over dramatic “humor.”

Yes, I had benefits.
Yes, I’m in my first category.
PBS awarded 11 work days on RJ.
PBS awarded 18 work days here.
Yes, seniority plays a part in this.
Yes, I make more money here.
Yes, I resigned from former carrier, no I don’t have any desire to go back.

I can play your game too. Why don’t we negotiate a “Buck-cutout” into the next PWA so that Buck won’t have to worry about contract improvements. Buck up Buck, I’m still you’ll still find reasons to complain about all these dadgum new hires.

You have no idea what sacrifices have been made in the last 20 yrs. I flew with 72 captains who had been furloughed 4 yrs under leadership 7.5 and then sat sideways for 7 yrs after that..that is why you are mocked for *****ing about working 14 days at Delta..suck it up.

CG

Can we agree that hopefully this summer was a statistical outlier and not an indication of how summers are expected to be going forward?

I’ve also flown with plenty of the furloughed, sat sideways crowd and everyone I’ve flown with lately agrees that this summer has had a relatively higher suck level compared to years past.

Got it. Less than one voluntary GS period per pilot in July and slightly more than 1% mandatory IA for July.

All kidding aside, there are some fleet specific staffing imbalances that are driving most of the GS flying.

Serious question: Does it seem odd that we were cheering on the A350 staffing disaster as a great pilot windfall, but the NB GS windfall is bad for pilots?

Why does voicing any type of desired improvement negate how bad others had it? You’re suck still sucks, negotiating improvements to the PWA won’t take that from you.

I’ve worked a lot harder for a lot less at different jobs but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t expect improvements here. That’s why I’m here, I worked to get to a better place.

I mean, regional FOs go from making high 50s back to high 30s, never mind the furloughs that end with you going back to your crappy regional.

When its contract time every pilot like hanging a star up on the tree. Some pilots would like more days off as lineholders is all. A middle ground might be a % of lines that are short overnight high credit trips that'll get pilots closer to old schedules they enjoyed.

We all came from different places, and we made the best of it. You guys know a lot of pilots that assume whatever they liked in a past life is stupid? You know a lot of pilots that get shamed into silence? Then what the hell are posts like that suppose to do?

A little touchy?

Is that dreadful 18 day Delta schedule because you are on reserve, or is that actual trips flying?

OBTW....last month I had 0 days of work or on call....No vacation or sick

The month before that I only worked 3 days....No vacation

Life is blissful


I can play your game of just enough information to make this sound like freakin' Utopia.....whereas you like to play the opposite side of the table....it's all about how Delta makes your life suck.

Although, what I stated as my last 2 months is entirely true, it's not the whole story. The diff between you and me is I don't intentionally mislead are or parse the info to try to make a point. You on the other hand.....

Well i can see the hyperbole is hitting new heights. Ill come back when it comes back to earth a little.

Y'all probably got more in common than you think

That does seem a bit capricious doesn't it ?????

Also .....that was tongue in cheek about my 8th GS....One can always dream....I would love to get just 1

And about the hours per trip.....I was assured a few months ago when discussing how our vacation sucks ... guys on here told me that that's what they get for 4 day trips....thought it sounded high on the timee...tried to flesh it out....but you can guess how that went

Perhaps I was alone; I wasn't cheering on the $millions enjoyed by a fortunate few. I was lamenting the wasted opportunity for many more 350 captains and first officers, along with the trickle-down movement from which we all could have benefitted.

Were those benefits a free kick in the nuts....Tuesday's AND Thursday's, rain or shine?

If a holiday fell on that Tuesday or Thursday.....did you get a second one.....also for free?

You wanted more Buck humor....so there it is....no extra charge


So....are those 18 days because you are on reserve? I'm sure you didn't come here from your RJ gig without an understanding about the effects of reg/res....senior/junior....new hire/longer than Moses....

When someone points out that airline xyz has a QOL data point that’s superior to ours, it’s inevitable that someone will make the sophomoric suggestion to quit Delta and go there. He’s not implying their contract as a whole is superior, and like it or not, our contract is not so godlike that we can’t look to our peers and see areas of improvement. Even some regionals have data points we can work toward (holiday pay, commuter hotels, etc). We should be able to bring these up and have a rational discussion about QOL issues without the lazy argument that regional xyz is hiring so put your app in.

Again, why does voicing any desire for improvement negate how bad you or others had it?

I understand the system, I understood the system before I came here. I can look at line awards for other pilots and see what they got so I can reference more than just my line.

As for your other post, I never said that Delta is making my life suck, those were your words. It did add that dramatic buck flair to your post though.

So a new hire at your RJ outfit got 11 days awarded on initial PBS award?

That is what you are trying to get me to believe

Where was that since I'd like to fact check it......I'm certain you wouldn't try to mislead anyone

No, the sophomoric premise is that you can take an isolated data point(especially one that appears to be massaged dreadfully) and act like it is not isolated and thus, totally achievable

We are negotiating a whole contract....very few data points are isolated. Most "gets" for one group are paid (or at least no gain)for by another section of the pilot group (straight line % increases in pay is the biggest outlier)

For example the simple proposal of greater DC contribution....sounds easy-peasy right?

Well, if you hit the 415c limit....you don't get PS on that DC excess....thus young guys are happy....old guys are not "just break even", they actually lose money

Im afraid what you're very obviously missing is that contract negotiations arent a zero sum game. I know that's the company position but you're adding value in the form of qol. Its not coming from someone else.

Now during a bankruptcy, which show of hands all of us have been through, i know I have, theres a contraction of the contract and then zero sum choices get made after taking a big hit.

I was like the number 5 of 180 FOs in NYC at Endeavor before I came here. I was mostly on military leave, but I remember my few full schedule months were generally three four day trips, twelve days total. They would credit about 78-80 hours. This was about two years ago.

To follow your logic, is everyone working 14 days here? No, some more and some less. You had your single data point and I had mine. I can also look up the line awards and see what more people are doing. In my category no one is working less than 13 days without vacation. ie, no one is working only 11 days so seniority or reg/res doesn’t matter.

No, I never said a new hire works 11 days. Again, your words, not mine. I said that I worked a line with 11 days off. So you can say that I gave you a data point that covered the entire pilot group to be misleading but it would make your 14 day number the same thing.

You wouldn’t be misleading people, would you buck?

Are you saying that a greater company contribution to your retirement account hurts you?

You’ll have to break this one down, I’m not following your logic. DC contributions don’t draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?

12,200+ voluntary hours.

IMO there is no critical staffing issue until GSWC are handed out like candy. A350A last year, 717B summer 16, and NYC7ERB couple summers ago are great examples of true critical staffing.

This summer was just a spike of GS due to JFK runway construction and rolling thunderstorms thru multiple hubs on a near daily basis in July. Even with all that GSWC was not needed often

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

OMG....you were in the top 3% and you worked 12 days for 79ish hours....not 10-11 days as Iceberg advertised?

You guys musta worked for different outfits

In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?

Thanks for that data point Extenda

Ie... "I cant understand how our current contract is lacking compared to not only other peer airlines but also regional airlines. So I will belittle those who have other views then mine; because I can't figure out that they are advocating for a better QOL for all. Then I will state how much I gave up for you to be here and have a job. I will say my plight is far worse then yours so you just have to deal with the suck."

This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.

I didn't explain that very well....shorthand for comparing straight line pay rates to increased DC contributions(wasn't very clear)

A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.

Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.

Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling


I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out

Clear(er) now?

We just need guys/gals or whatever pronoun applies to start holding out for GSWC

Der Meister,

Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.

My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement

Capice?

I think I got you. As an example, you’re saying pay rates +10% vs. pay rates +6% and DC +4%. I didn’t catch that the first time, I see your point.

A big 10-4 buddy. You just got caught up in the pages of muck that is APC. But yes my first language was gibberish so normally I can follow along quite well on APC. Haha

Good one....I appreciate your sense of humor:D

yes....my fault....used shorthand at first, so it was confusing.

Since you understand this, kudos to you....I would venture a guess that 95% of ALL the pilots don't know this

Also Buck Roger's I dont mean to really knock you or those who did give up QOL/Pay for the company to get to the point we are at today. I have another 33 ish years here hopefully. But at the same time we cant move forward if we are always looking into the past. We must learn from the past mistakes so we don't make them in the future.

33 years to go, you're gonna see it all. Standby for heavy rolls.

And a heavy bank account!

We should change this. DC excess should be included in profit sharing calculations especially if we are paying ALPA dues on it.

General question: is there an easy way to find out where you stand on FAR 117 cummulative FDP and block limits for a month (28 days)? The only place I found block was on the time card and even there I had to add up all my trips from the month to find the total. And that still doesn't give you a rolling 28 day look-back. I haven't found anywhere that shows where you are for FDP other than manually adding up all your duty days from each trip.

GS question: is there a buffer on max FDP and block limits for the month? E.g. I have 93 hours of block in a month and there's a GS with 7 hours of block, will they still consider me for it even though it would put me right to the 100 hour/28 day limit? Or does it need to be 1 hour or 2 hours below? What happens if that GS causes you to not be legal for your next trip in the next month?

All I could find was info about the line adjustment process and GS but I don't think that applies here.

Yes icrew, personnel tab, qualifications, block hours flown. And there is a buffer but you'd have to ask a union guy or scheds guy what it is.

You can also overwrite the date and time to take a look at future data based on your projected schedule.

From the latest MEC update:

The Fitness Review Board (FRB) saw a 55% increase in the number of Fitness for Duty Reports (FFDRs) filed during the first half of 2019 as compared to the previous year.