And you are wrong. I have also gotten guys paid for exactly that.


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Again,
This is incorrect information. There absolutely is pay protection if the company stops the call-out before the time expires. I have said this multiple times.


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So you have gotten pilots paid for a trip merely because it was in open time? I saw a trip in July that was in open time I wanted. It was canceled before awarded however I was probably the senior guy so I should be paid for it?
One other thing that should be mentioned because I see this error all the time. ARCOS does not award or decide trip coverage. It is a notification tool only. The scheduler still pulls the trip coverage report just like before ARCOS. She then sends that trip coverage to ARCOS for notification only.

Operation is running on red line
 

Is that what I said? No. I specifically said multiple times and will say it again one more time for you. I have gotten pilots paid for ARCOS callouts that scheduling has stopped the callout during the response window. 100% of the time I've encountered it I've gotten pilots paid for it. The one 80kts talked about, I will get the senior pilot paid for it too.

The scheduler pulls the trip coverage, sets the batch size, then arcos makes the calls.

I've also gotten guys paid when scheduling sets the wrong response window and closes it before the 15 minutes


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Crap. I wish I would have saved the screenshot in June when they stopped they window for a trip I wanted. #liveandlearn

Kudos for section 23 experts like tunes to helping get guys paid when they should instead of arguing against it! :cool:

Sailing is purposefully being obtuse and trying to sharpshoot his own words. I speak for most of the readers, I'm sure, when I say we're all listening to what you say. Thank you. Anytime you need to set us straight, do so, this is great info.

The day I commute up to find my greenslip has been canceelled with no pay is the day I've picked up my last greenslip.

Today I saw a trip in daily trip coverage awarded for a GS and he was junior to me. I looked again and it was in open time, then I saw it awarded again to someone junior to me again....I knew this trip met my criteria but I was on duty. I changed the “no” to “yes” on the GS request for acknowledging if you’re on duty, and immediately got a call from Arcos for this trip and selected it. Nothing further happened for 20 minutes and the trip sat in open time unawarded. I called scheduling before heading to the airplane and she checked with my scheduler and said there are no uncovered trips. All GS have been awarded, so I checked ICrew one more time and the guy who ended up with the trip was a 2800ish seniority number. It looked like it was covering it with a 7900ish number when I saw the 2 guys on the daily trip coverage with their names on the trip at different times.

It was really weird. I’ve seen back in the manual days where it’ll show the pilot on there while they are trying to contact him/her, but with Arcos, I would have thought a pilots name wouldn’t be there until it’s official. And for it to go 5000 numbers senior to the numbers I saw when it was bouncing between daily trip coverage and open time...I can’t understand what was going on.

do you still have the callout ID? or the flight/date? You can PM me. Also, if you are comfortable giving me your name you can do that in a PM and i can pull up the arcos log for it.

That could happen for a number of reasons. What could have happened is a senior pilot missed the original window, then called scheduling later and said they wanted the trip. If no one in the current batch wants it when the batch expires the senior pilot that called in from a previous batch will be awarded the trip. Does that make sense? I'm happy to look into it if you want to give me the info.

I have never argued against guys getting paid when they should. What I have stated is that if a rotation is cancelled prior to being awarded there is no pay protection. I suspect Tunes is leaving something out like the trip was actually awarded to the incorrect pilot and was operating at the time of the award.

Scheduling is frequently covering trips illegally, and it is up to us to catch them. When you get a reroute try to see if the rerouted segment was known about for 14 or more hours out, If so, it is illegal(unless they could not position a pilot to cover that segment)..There are many other illegal reroutes happening but this is the most common that I see. Also does anyone think they will magically fix the Acars notification system concerning FDP extensions once the busy summer flying is over? Sure worked out well for mgmt pushing this back until the summer flying is over.

lets recap:
false
no, i said if they go back because they skipped a step of coverage or passed over a pilot in a step of coverage, there is no pay protection if they fix it per the PWA reference I provided. You said that you are always pay protected if a trip is on your line, that is factually incorrect.

yes, the key to 23.L.4.note is that they have to be able to get another pilot there to cover it with legal rest/turn times. Not a specific pilot, just have the ability to do it. If there is a 'hook leg' (the leg inside 14 hours) and the only thing outside the 14 hours is a deadhead that pays every time, there is no requirement to see if a pilot could get there. The payday is when there is no hook. You then get assignment pay for the ‘created rotation’. For example I worked a ‘no hook’ 23.L.4 note last week where the pilot had no legs inside 14 hours but 1 sub 2 hour leg outside of it. Because of how it was structured to get a pilot there to cover it it became a 2 day 10:30 rotation since a layover would have been involved. Original pilot will now get 21:00 extra (10:30 x 2), in addition to his rotation guarantee, for that 1:50ish leg and additionally a 23.m.7 pilot will be identified and paid 10:30

I’ve seen the same. It appears that the system “ghosts” assignments that show on trip coverage momentarily. Once the system identifies the eligible pilots then ARCOS starts robo calls.

I could be wrong but it seems that way to me. As such I don’t believe an assignment until there is the * saying it has been acknowledged.

Correct. I believe that this is how ARCOS identifies who is legal and available for said rotation(s).

I don't have any of the info anymore, but I'm now more educated on the topic and won't let it occur unnoticed next time. Thanks for the info.

I've seen that multiple times. I think they're running through the trip coverage list. It always goes away and Arcos calls go out shortly after.

Right before the ARCOS call goes out, the trip is “assigned” to a lot of people for just a second or two. I assume it’s the way they check if the trip is legal. I don’t fret till I see the asterisk, meaning it’s been accepted.

Yes that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I am sure everything was on the up and up. I’m not worried about it as it wasn’t even close and someone did end up getting it. This isn’t the same as having the trip no op during awarding it.

Back to running on red line. I was called 4 times last night for IA’s.
ATL 320B

I remember when the 88 was like that.

Tunes, don’t you have 90 days to inform the company of a suspected violation, and a recorded line call to CS to inquire satisfies that requirement? Then, the ALPA scheduling committee guys can do their good work?

I’ve been getting multiple IA calls for NYC 320B per day.

How does IA pay if you are below GS trigger?

This is how it works. ARCOS is a notification tool only and has nothing to do with determining which pilots should be offered the trip. That is done the same way it always has been by the scheduler running a trip coverage report. Once the report identifies the pilots to contact the names are sent to ARCOS for notification. This is also why if you accept the trip via ARCOS it does not show up in DBMS. The scheduler has to manually show acceptance in DBMS. They forget to do that often.

IA always pays double...no IA trigger....separate from GS trigger.

Thanks.

Filler

Operation is running on red line
 

he can send an email to scheduling committee or pm me if he wants it looked into, i know he said he was satisfied earlier, he's free to change his mind! We can search all ARCOS history just by a pilot's name and look into it if he wants it looked into. A lot of emails we get about ARCOS guys think they were missed out on a GS and occasionally they were, but in those cases usually it's a senior pilot that is paid. So, just think of it as every time you write in if we find out it was done in error someone is getting paid, even if it's not you...so you are doing your fellow pilots a solid.

We want you to email is when you have issues, just keep in mind it's going to take a little while to get back to you now. There are over 300 emails in the inbox....up until a few months ago we were able to keep it under 100 which was about a 4-5 day turn time....needles to say, things have changed

120 days. Just got off the line with Dalpa scheduling.

Great, thanks for that.

So the takeaway is, if you suspect you got hosed, make a phone call to CS to inquire as a hedge within 120 days to preserve your right to grieve it later.

I emailed an issue to DALPA scheduling over a month ago. Haven’t heard a peep.


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I emailed an issue two weeks ago and hadn’t heard anything back. I called today and got a call back in about 2 hours. I was told to call the company first and if it’s not resolved call dalpa back.
Called the company and got 10:30 for an incorrectly awarded greenie #winning

A month is about the current turnaround time.


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So on a reserve 4 day GS where only day 1 is over an X day. Day 2 was originally a 30 hour layover. Day 1 they rerouted us to delay 2 flights instead of 1, as they do, to add a previously non-existing duty period on day 2, which also was the original first day of reserve. Do I get anything for the reroute or am I limited to the above guarantee of day 1? I know on reserve generally the answer is no, but wasn't sure if that's different since the last leg of the X day portion of the GS is where the RR started.

Send it to ALPA scheduling. GS or not, you could be due RR pay.

look at PWA 23.L.4.note, see if that applies. You can PM me if you'd like.

Don't think that applies. Was delayed coming into msp due to the previous CA not knowing how to write things up, basically and then not answering his phone. We could have made it on time to our 30 hour layover but the sodomizer apparently chose to send us to Fargo instead, double deadhead today.

Sad, but seeing this more and more. Either not checking the writeup and assuming FO did it correctly, or not knowing how to do it themselves. I think it is time for some accountability on this issue.

The FO doing it as a tradition/courtesy is a relic that needs to go the way of the one ear on one ear off shouting nonsense. Captain's ship, Captain does the book FO reviews.

I don't even have a problem with FO doing it and CA reviews. Just as long as someone reviews.

Vol.1 specifies the interior inspection is the FO’s checklist, which includes logbook signoff, verifying MDM limititations, ETOPS signoff, etc. While all crew members are required to review the logbook, the administrative duties associated with the logbook fall squarely on the FO. (At least on the 737).

Disagree. Why don't we all act like we're responsible for the flight, checking everything that could be a gotcha for everyone, so we can back each other up and be ready to upgrade when the time comes? I did my best to check everything I could as an FO, and I appreciate when my FO's do the same. It's not about ego. There's only one person in command, but we all have a stake.