Reminds me of Spinal Tap.:D

UAL global flights have contract pay extension language. Nobody extends domestic since there is no benefit to it. Like the other guy said, off to the hotel with no phone calls or explaining to do.

A :30 minute extension gets you 2 hrs add pay.

The next 1:30 hr extension gets you a total of 5 hours add pay.

When our BOM flights leave EWR, usually less than an hour of delay time until your getting extension add pay. Very senior trip for that reason alone.

The props were not 18 inches tall.

And no band members spontaneously combusted.

But the Amps definitely went to 11.

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Just saw four charming Gentlemen from England in Philly last week.

Saw the same show in Jacksonville last weekend. Great show, glad I was able to see them once before they stop playing.

You mean croak? :)


GP

But did their amp go to eleven?

Apparently...






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Well....I'm glad to learn that their drummer did not spontaneously combust. 😁

Good info. I would say at Delta 90% +/- of the domestic pilots extend . Delta mgmt has done a great job ensuring this with all the hoops you must jump thru after refusing to extend.

What are the implications if one simply goes to the hotel, a la UAL?

The longer it takes, the longer I'm on duty, the longer rest period I will require to recover from said duty period. It's just that simple... But to the FCR part that actually is part of 117 (117.7 B 3,4,5). Though I will say delta takes it to the extreme. And once again definitely the worst airline as far as 117 is concerned that I have worked for. It's amazing that both a regional and an ULCC has better a better 117 policy then delta; but seeing how far behind they are in the I.T. department its it's not that suprising.

What I don’t get is why they don’t just make the amps louder, and have 10 be the top.


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You are leaving stuff out. You call crew tracking who then tranfers you to a duty pilot where you have to repeat yourself. Then you have to fill out fatigue form where you pit everything you said in writing. Then chief pilot follows up the next business day where you have to repeat yourself all over again. In my experience, the chief pilot threatens to not pay protect you as intimidation. In my case there was nothing to pay protect me for which is why I took it as intimidation. Most guys here like their job and extending is just easier as it is what our company expects you to do.

The Chief Pilot should not be calling. If they do, you need to let your reps know. You fill out your FFDR and that should be the end of it.

I have refused every extension I've ever had to at Delta. 2 total and both international in the last 7 months. I've been fully paid and no questions asked. I have young kids and refuse to take on any extra liability.

The chief pilot has absolutely nothing to do with pay protection so he can’t threaten you. You do seem to have interesting experiences. I would have followed that experience up and pushed to see he no longer works as a CP.
I have never had a call from a CP for refusing a extension and even pulling the plug prior to needing a extension. I have had to deal with the duty pilot calling but that’s easy.

Was this at Delta? Recently?

I just call straight to the duty pilot they do the rest. One call that’s all.

If guys are extending because they are intimidated by that then that’s on them not the company.

You don’t call Crew Tracking for Fatigue. Your one and only call is to the Duty Pilot.

For any future Delta pilot wannabe's reading this thread......if asked a "what if" question analogous to this scenario.....I would highly suggest you do not follow this advice/train of thought. I suspect that no one would be hired if their reason is, "I've got too much to lose, so I will never extend"

JMHO

It's a pretty simple concept. If you're fit to continue, extend. If you're not, don't. Yes, the way we have to deal with it is a hassle and, intentionally or not, discourages people from making the right choice if they aren't 100% fit. We're paid to say no when necessary. Sometimes it's hard to do the right thing.

Nope. I’ve done extensions in the past because I thought I was totally fine only to regress pretty quickly once in the air. Everyones’ body is different but I’ve learned my lesson and it ain’t worth it.

And that’s part of the deadliness of fatigue. It can overcome you quickly and it impairs your judgement. I’ll let someone who’s more rested happily do the flight as a WS or GS.

We are also paid to say yes when we can. (as you acknowledged)

So simple question......do you disagree with the advice I gave to potential pilot candidates? Like I said.....if given a hypothetical and you said you will always say NO just because you won't accept the liability......you will prolly not be a Delta pilot

Personally, I never raise the gear after takeoff cause I don't want the responsibility/liability of a gear up landing if it fails to come down
;)....after all it is safer to just leave 'em hanging


My advise as to what you do once you become a pilot is the same but cuts both ways.....that is "get a little sumptin' in ye ole nut sack"....if you don't think you can continue, then don't....if you feel you can, then do".....but to say that you won't continue because you don't want to accept the responsibility/liability because you have young kids at home?????(fatigue was not a consideration, only liability!!!)

You can have the last word

How is this so hard? Do you feel you could complete the extension safely? Do it.

Do you feel you'll be too fatigued? Don't do it.

Fatigue is always an issue and that's what brought about 117. The 2 hour extension was made for the airlines and is not science base. God forbid something happens during that 2 hour extension and a contributing factor is found to be fatigue. I can guarantee at that point you will be thrown under the bus with everyone saying what was that pilot thinking when he extended. I can see lawyers arguing that your family and estate be held liable due to you decision to extend. It is then a liability issue.

I would love to see the stats of how many ASAP's are filed during an extension.

The bolded part hasn't happened for over 2 years now since MOU 16-04 was implemented and the FRB established.

While I'm sure that has worked out fine, from the FAQs put out in FRB 17-01 "Making the Fatigue Call":

Q: I am fatigued or will not be fit for duty. How do I notify the Company?

A: If prior to reporting for your rotation, contact Crew Scheduling. If you have already reported for your rotation, contact Crew Tracking. You should then be transferred to the Duty Pilot who has two primary concerns:

• Determining how much rest you need to be available for duty, and
• Ensuring you know to complete an FFDR.

That's solid logic...but kind of incomplete. Fatigue studies helped craft duty days from numerous examples that the idea of having solid duty times is due to the fact that you might be fatigued and not realize it. Or the idea that you may think you will be ok by the time you get to the end of the tunnel, only to find out you arent.

Tomato, tomaato. It’s one call. If you want to call tracking have at it. I’ve always called duty pilot and he/she has talked to tracking. You will have to fill out the form for the Fatigue review board which is a slight pain but it is what it is.

I just don’t get all the angst and feelings of intimidation. Could it be easier? Yes. Is it hard? No.

Your right, our right, the right, to divert for fatigue reasons has already been highlighted by the FAA as the safest option.

So your choices are.
Dont fly
Choose to fly and decide your too tired partway and divert.
Fly and complete the flight without fatigue

When you hit fatigue, you should stop, no matter what.

2 words.

Roscoe Mcmillian. :)

I agree that this is pretty simple and also don't get all the angst and feelings of intimidation. It was pretty painless when I did it and I got paid with zero pushback. I only posted the actual FAQ because it specifically said to call tracking and seemed pertinent. You're right, it doesn't require multiple phone calls.

I had to look him up, but glad I did. Thanks for that.

My recent experience was easy enough. Called tracking, they transferred me to the duty pilot. Gave him a time I would be ready and then filled in the form. Didn’t hear anything back from anyone until the board review a few weeks later. Just an email that said my report was accepted.

While we should be more in line with the rest of the airlines on this, and on top of it we had a very rough go to start (Delta’s fault), but this is the normal experience. Make the call and get rested. Remember that when you choose to extend, the state you are in is approaching inebriation, so factor that into the equation.

That’s like saying “OOffff” is offended... allot... again...

Be careful

Thanks that's why I find these discussions informative and productive.

I was thinking the same thing. My entire Delta Career only have seen one pilot refuse the extension. I think it's a combination of the Delta Difference culture plus the hoops


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What's allot?

To distribute?