It's a pretty simple concept. If you're fit to continue, extend. If you're not, don't. Yes, the way we have to deal with it is a hassle and, intentionally or not, discourages people from making the right choice if they aren't 100% fit. We're paid to say no when necessary. Sometimes it's hard to do the right thing.

 

Nope. I’ve done extensions in the past because I thought I was totally fine only to regress pretty quickly once in the air. Everyones’ body is different but I’ve learned my lesson and it ain’t worth it.

And that’s part of the deadliness of fatigue. It can overcome you quickly and it impairs your judgement. I’ll let someone who’s more rested happily do the flight as a WS or GS.

 

We are also paid to say yes when we can. (as you acknowledged)

So simple question......do you disagree with the advice I gave to potential pilot candidates? Like I said.....if given a hypothetical and you said you will always say NO just because you won't accept the liability......you will prolly not be a Delta pilot

Personally, I never raise the gear after takeoff cause I don't want the responsibility/liability of a gear up landing if it fails to come down
....after all it is safer to just leave 'em hanging


My advise as to what you do once you become a pilot is the same but cuts both ways.....that is "get a little sumptin' in ye ole nut sack"....if you don't think you can continue, then don't....if you feel you can, then do".....but to say that you won't continue because you don't want to accept the responsibility/liability because you have young kids at home?????(fatigue was not a consideration, only liability!!!)

You can have the last word

 

How is this so hard? Do you feel you could complete the extension safely? Do it.

Do you feel you'll be too fatigued? Don't do it.

 

Fatigue is always an issue and that's what brought about 117. The 2 hour extension was made for the airlines and is not science base. God forbid something happens during that 2 hour extension and a contributing factor is found to be fatigue. I can guarantee at that point you will be thrown under the bus with everyone saying what was that pilot thinking when he extended. I can see lawyers arguing that your family and estate be held liable due to you decision to extend. It is then a liability issue.

I would love to see the stats of how many ASAP's are filed during an extension.

 

The bolded part hasn't happened for over 2 years now since MOU 16-04 was implemented and the FRB established.

 

While I'm sure that has worked out fine, from the FAQs put out in FRB 17-01 "Making the Fatigue Call":

Q: I am fatigued or will not be fit for duty. How do I notify the Company?

A: If prior to reporting for your rotation, contact Crew Scheduling. If you have already reported for your rotation, contact Crew Tracking. You should then be transferred to the Duty Pilot who has two primary concerns:

• Determining how much rest you need to be available for duty, and
• Ensuring you know to complete an FFDR.

 

That's solid logic...but kind of incomplete. Fatigue studies helped craft duty days from numerous examples that the idea of having solid duty times is due to the fact that you might be fatigued and not realize it. Or the idea that you may think you will be ok by the time you get to the end of the tunnel, only to find out you arent.

 

Tomato, tomaato. It’s one call. If you want to call tracking have at it. I’ve always called duty pilot and he/she has talked to tracking. You will have to fill out the form for the Fatigue review board which is a slight pain but it is what it is.

I just don’t get all the angst and feelings of intimidation. Could it be easier? Yes. Is it hard? No.

 

Your right, our right, the right, to divert for fatigue reasons has already been highlighted by the FAA as the safest option.

So your choices are.
Dont fly
Choose to fly and decide your too tired partway and divert.
Fly and complete the flight without fatigue

When you hit fatigue, you should stop, no matter what.