Scope Committee Pacific Update
09-06-2019, 03:33 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by Trip7
Delta has finally started growing again in the Pacific but the Scope Committee released an update that seemed overly negative with narrowly focused statistics.....
Originally Posted by TED74
Ask him how long he's been here at Delta. He might say it shouldn't matter, but once you get a sense of his age and experience it is easier to laugh off his shenanigans and naivete.
Most of us know how important Scope is from the day we set foot on property. Don’t diminish our intelligence because we’ve been here “X” fewer days than you.
09-06-2019, 03:57 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
Originally Posted by Trip7
Delta has finally started growing again in the Pacific but the Scope Committee released an update that seemed overly negative with narrowly focused statistics.
They correctly reported the Company was in violation of Section 1 E. 8 over the last rolling 3 month period for US-Japan flying bringing violations to 26. However, that clause is only active because of ONE route Korean flies from Japan to Hawaii. Expecting the company to maintain USA Japan flying as they pull down the Narita Hub and shift to ICN is silly. USA-Korea flying is well above Scope minimums and Combined Korea/Japan-USA is currently above minimums. Will be interesting to see what the Arbitrator rules on Company vs DALPA interpretation of 1E.8
If the Korean NRT-HNL leisure route did not exist 14 scope violations would be gone bringing violations down to 12. Section 1 E.10. (agree to JV before) is another technicality, as is the A 350 factory pilots which brings true violations down to 10 violations, 7 AeroMexico, 3 West jet since 2016. Still too much but not as drastic painted. As Delta grows in the Pacific and to the UK only thing left to nitpick will be the USA-Japan flying as Delta will not return to Narita Hub levels.
IMO, DALPA needs to stop focusing on small technicalities in the Scope language that have no effect on jobs and focus on the big picture. It's what previous administrations did and that led Delta pilots to the top of the industry.
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They correctly reported the Company was in violation of Section 1 E. 8 over the last rolling 3 month period for US-Japan flying bringing violations to 26. However, that clause is only active because of ONE route Korean flies from Japan to Hawaii. Expecting the company to maintain USA Japan flying as they pull down the Narita Hub and shift to ICN is silly. USA-Korea flying is well above Scope minimums and Combined Korea/Japan-USA is currently above minimums. Will be interesting to see what the Arbitrator rules on Company vs DALPA interpretation of 1E.8
If the Korean NRT-HNL leisure route did not exist 14 scope violations would be gone bringing violations down to 12. Section 1 E.10. (agree to JV before) is another technicality, as is the A 350 factory pilots which brings true violations down to 10 violations, 7 AeroMexico, 3 West jet since 2016. Still too much but not as drastic painted. As Delta grows in the Pacific and to the UK only thing left to nitpick will be the USA-Japan flying as Delta will not return to Narita Hub levels.
IMO, DALPA needs to stop focusing on small technicalities in the Scope language that have no effect on jobs and focus on the big picture. It's what previous administrations did and that led Delta pilots to the top of the industry.
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I disagree 100 percent
Scope is not a mouth wash
It’s OUR job protection
09-06-2019, 05:22 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by TED74
Ask him how long he's been here at Delta. He might say it shouldn't matter, but once you get a sense of his age and experience it is easier to laugh off his shenanigans and naivete.
09-06-2019, 05:26 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,767
Originally Posted by Trip7
Delta has finally started growing again in the Pacific but the Scope Committee released an update that seemed overly negative with narrowly focused statistics.
They correctly reported the Company was in violation of Section 1 E. 8 over the last rolling 3 month period for US-Japan flying bringing violations to 26. However, that clause is only active because of ONE route Korean flies from Japan to Hawaii. Expecting the company to maintain USA Japan flying as they pull down the Narita Hub and shift to ICN is silly. USA-Korea flying is well above Scope minimums and Combined Korea/Japan-USA is currently above minimums. Will be interesting to see what the Arbitrator rules on Company vs DALPA interpretation of 1E.8
If the Korean NRT-HNL leisure route did not exist 14 scope violations would be gone bringing violations down to 12. Section 1 E.10. (agree to JV before) is another technicality, as is the A 350 factory pilots which brings true violations down to 10 violations, 7 AeroMexico, 3 West jet since 2016. Still too much but not as drastic painted. As Delta grows in the Pacific and to the UK only thing left to nitpick will be the USA-Japan flying as Delta will not return to Narita Hub levels.
IMO, DALPA needs to stop focusing on small technicalities in the Scope language that have no effect on jobs and focus on the big picture. It's what previous administrations did and that led Delta pilots to the top of the industry.
Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
They correctly reported the Company was in violation of Section 1 E. 8 over the last rolling 3 month period for US-Japan flying bringing violations to 26. However, that clause is only active because of ONE route Korean flies from Japan to Hawaii. Expecting the company to maintain USA Japan flying as they pull down the Narita Hub and shift to ICN is silly. USA-Korea flying is well above Scope minimums and Combined Korea/Japan-USA is currently above minimums. Will be interesting to see what the Arbitrator rules on Company vs DALPA interpretation of 1E.8
If the Korean NRT-HNL leisure route did not exist 14 scope violations would be gone bringing violations down to 12. Section 1 E.10. (agree to JV before) is another technicality, as is the A 350 factory pilots which brings true violations down to 10 violations, 7 AeroMexico, 3 West jet since 2016. Still too much but not as drastic painted. As Delta grows in the Pacific and to the UK only thing left to nitpick will be the USA-Japan flying as Delta will not return to Narita Hub levels.
IMO, DALPA needs to stop focusing on small technicalities in the Scope language that have no effect on jobs and focus on the big picture. It's what previous administrations did and that led Delta pilots to the top of the industry.
Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
09-06-2019, 06:26 AM
#27
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Many of you make a very good point. Scope is Section 1 for a reason. It's the most important Section of our Contract. I'm a strong supporter of our current Scope language and find it to be excellent. IMO, our Scope language caught something it was not intended to catch with the Korean NRT-HNL route which activated USA-Japan flying block hour protection in the midst of the Narita Hub wind down. Granted Korean could just kill the route and make this whole issue go away.
By no means should we ignore the violation. Hopefully the NC is already doing it but it should be used as leverage for greater gains in a Korean JV agreement or greater gains in other sections of our Contract. For example make only the NRT-HNL flight exempt and fix Deadheading. The previous administration saw the forrest for the trees and renegotiated the Narita Fifth Freedom flight PWA language for more sensible Trans Pacific block hour language that went along with the company's restructuring plans.
Again in terms of the big picture the Union shows Pacific block hours starting a steep decline in 2014 while our global widebody block hours show stable or growing during that time period which along with our profit sharing checks suggest the flying was reallocated to more profitable theatres. Cue the DALPA slogan from the Virgin LOA: Global Protection trumps Threatre Protection.
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By no means should we ignore the violation. Hopefully the NC is already doing it but it should be used as leverage for greater gains in a Korean JV agreement or greater gains in other sections of our Contract. For example make only the NRT-HNL flight exempt and fix Deadheading. The previous administration saw the forrest for the trees and renegotiated the Narita Fifth Freedom flight PWA language for more sensible Trans Pacific block hour language that went along with the company's restructuring plans.
Again in terms of the big picture the Union shows Pacific block hours starting a steep decline in 2014 while our global widebody block hours show stable or growing during that time period which along with our profit sharing checks suggest the flying was reallocated to more profitable theatres. Cue the DALPA slogan from the Virgin LOA: Global Protection trumps Threatre Protection.
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09-06-2019, 06:37 AM
#28
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Originally Posted by 20Fathoms
Concur with the above. Explain to us Trip how 2500 trivial hours of trans-pacific flying has no effect on jobs? If we can’t defend this, what can we defend? You accuse the union of being one-sided in their communications and I don’t disagree, but your post to start this thread is far more one-sided than the union comms.
Originally Posted by SayMach
2500 hours of Japan-US flying is huge. You should see how much that changed the LAX and SEA 7ER bid packages. If we don’t get control of this it will be death by 1000 paper cuts.
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Last edited by Trip7; 09-06-2019 at 06:48 AM.
09-06-2019, 09:04 AM
#29
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,552
Trip7 I don’t think many of us disagree with your assessment of how we got here when it comes to shifting flying and global block hours. However for whatever reasons the company agreed to the theater specific limitations when the contract was signed. Once the company knew that things were changing the right thing to do would have been to go to the union and seek some restructuring of the theater limits, which I’m sure would have been fine as long as global hours were going up. Simply doing whatever the flip they wanted regardless of our scope was the wrong move.
09-06-2019, 09:07 AM
#30
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Originally Posted by tennisguru
Trip7 I don’t think many of us disagree with your assessment of how we got here when it comes to shifting flying and global block hours. However for whatever reasons the company agreed to the theater specific limitations when the contract was signed. Once the company knew that things were changing the right thing to do would have been to go to the union and seek some restructuring of the theater limits, which I’m sure would have been fine as long as global hours were going up. Simply doing whatever the flip they wanted regardless of our scope was the wrong move.
"Quite simply, when we projected the baseline flying as part of our new relationship with Korean Airlines, we inadvertently missed Korean’s one flight between Japan and Honolulu. When this single flight is included in the calculation, it puts us temporarily below one measure of our baseline flying requirement for the JV."
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