Republic denial of travel on DL AC
10-18-2019, 07:48 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,558
Originally Posted by wmupilot85
I was very cordial to them. And I didn't get a free ride to work as I had to purchase a ZED ticket to ride, which cost money. Skywest Airlines is denying the JS to 5 airline groups and stating that their airman certificate can have actions taken against it for accepting a pilot from these 5 pilot groups on their aircraft. In addition to that, if someone isn't cordial with me, I would be a professional and not tell someone to shove it up their ass in front of our customers.
And this conversation happened after the flight at the destination airport. I was very nice and polite requesting the JS to work. As soon as he found out who I worked for, he got a smirk on his face and was happy to deny it.
And this conversation happened after the flight at the destination airport. I was very nice and polite requesting the JS to work. As soon as he found out who I worked for, he got a smirk on his face and was happy to deny it.
10-18-2019, 10:32 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by wmupilot85
Skywest Airlines is denying the JS to 5 airline groups and stating that their airman certificate can have actions taken against it for accepting a pilot from these 5 pilot groups on their aircraft.
10-18-2019, 11:57 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by gloopy
That makes no sense at all.
If you have a coupla hours go over to the United forum and you can read all the gory details
10-18-2019, 11:57 AM
#84
Gets Rolled on the Reg.
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 274
No matter, agreement signed, anyone that has issues now write it up.
10-18-2019, 12:02 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 909
Originally Posted by gloopy
That makes no sense at all.
10-18-2019, 12:03 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
so here is the Skywest version to their pilots......I understand thy are also supposed to deny Delta also(this may be incorrect)...
Fellow Pilots,
As you have likely heard by now, the United ALPA Master Executive Council has decided to adjust our jumpseat agreements with them and their exclusive partners (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, and Trans States) as well as GoJet. If you haven’t yet read the letter from From Aric to our pilots and SAPA’s letter to the United ALPA MEC, and to be given to United and United Express exclusive (UAX-E) pilots attempting to jumpseat, please do so. Below is a Q&A to shed some additional light on what is going on, where we are going from here and what is expected of you as a SkyWest pilot.
What is going on? How did we get here?
Good question! For years, the United MEC (those are the guys that negotiate jumpseat agreements on behalf of United mainline pilots) have been trying to unilaterally change their jumpseat agreements with their United Express partners to prioritize United mainline pilots over other United Express pilots on United Express flights. For example, under the current agreement, if a SkyWest pilot and a United mainline pilot show up to list for the jumpseat on a United Express flight operated by ExpressJet, the priority would be time of check-in. United wants their pilots to get priority over our pilots and other United Express pilots in the example above.
United’s attempts to do this over the years were unsuccessful, due to push back from all of the United Express carriers and their pilots. The recent announcement of “exclusive” United Express partners that fly only for United (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) changed the equation as those carriers have capitulated and acquiesced to United’s proposed changes in return for priority on United and United Express flights above non-exclusive United Express carriers including ourselves, Mesa and Republic.
This came to a head this month when, without warning, the United MEC announced changes to their United’s gate software handling jumpseat priority on United and United Express exclusive carriers, (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) effective October 15th. Additionally, they released new priority literature to their pilot group. The changes placed UAL and UAX-E pilots ahead of United Express non-exclusive pilots on UAL and UAX flights, in violation of our existing agreement. In an additional rub, UALPA made ANY priority to United Express non-exclusive (us) pilots on UAL and UAX-E flights over offline pilots contingent on our acquiescence to these changes. If we accepted, we would be given priority offline pilots but below United mainline and their exclusive carriers. If we didn’t accept, we would be relegated the same priority as any offline carrier pilot who may support or work for a competitor. Of the UAX non-exclusive carriers, GoJet caved and accepted the changes and as such they are the sole pilot group within the UAX non-exclusive tier falling behind UAL and UAX-E pilots but above offline carriers including us, Republic and Mesa, placing themselves in violation of the reciprocal jumpseat agreement they have with us.
Ultimately the software change directed by the United MEC places our priority on ALL UAL and UAX flights as offline pilots, in direct violation of our agreement with United and UAX-E carriers but more critically in violation of our FOM. While the software change was not scheduled to go into effect until October 15th, we have confirmed that it has been put into immediate effect, meaning as of now, gate agents are improperly sorting jumpseat requests on SkyWest operated flights and putting the flight crew in violation of our FOM without any intervention from the PIC.
How does this affect me as a SkyWest pilot?
1. Most obviously, the loss of priority on UAL and UAX-E flights which is detailed above.
2. More critically, the software change places our flight crews in direct violation of our own FOM when operating a United branded flight with a jumpseater. YOU CAN FACE CERTIFICATE ACTION BY THE FAA for violating the FOM. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to do “the walk” up to the gate to ensure proper sorting of jumpseat requests. AGAIN, YOUR CERTIFICATE IS CURRENTLY AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT ENSURE THAT OUR FOM IS FOLLOWED in regard to jumpseat priority. As UAL and UAX-E partners, as well as GoJet, have violated our reciprocal jumpseat agreements with them, we consider those agreements null and void. THEREFORE, NO UNITED MAINLINE PILOT OR THEIR EXCLUSIVE PARTNERS (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States), AS WELL AS GOJET, CAN UTILIZE THEIR JUMPSEAT AGREEMENT WITH US, as such agreement no longer exists.
Wait, you want me to deny all United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet pilots the jumpseat?
Yes, this is what we are forced to do to avoid violating our own FOM until a proper agreement can be put back in place.
What if there is room in the back? Does this only refer to sitting in the actual jumpseat?
No, as reciprocal jumpseat agreements cover all utilization of jumpseat requests and we no longer have a valid agreement with United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet, this includes any listing request for the jumpseat regardless if there are seats in the back available for all jumpseaters listed.
Does this include non-United branded SkyWest flights?
Yes, because United is unwilling to work with us to correct the FOM violation. We can not carry United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States or GoJet pilots that would willfully violate longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements with us.
How am I supposed to handle denying the jumpseat to those pilots? I hate denying anyone a ride home.
Please ensure that you make the walk up to the gate area on each flight, regardless of partner. Take your EFB with you that has the FOM as well as multiple copies of the letter that we provided to you for United mainline and exclusive carriers and GoJet. Go out of your way to be respectful and explain the situation to each pilot that you need to deny the jumpseat to. Remind them that they can still use pass travel benefits or ZED fares to attempt to get a seat in the back. Most importantly, please take the time to educate yourself on this issue and be able to explain why you are denying them the jumpseat. Explain that allowing them to list for the jumpseat is forcing you to violate your own FOM, and your certificate could be at risk as a result of you letting them list for our jumpseat without a valid agreement in place. If you need further clarification on this, please reach out to any SAPA rep. Lastly, please stay tuned to communications from SAPA regarding this issue as it is ever-evolving. We hope to have a resolution in place soon that will allow for continued use of our jumpseat by United pilots and their exclusive partners without us violating our own FOM.
I am hoping to one day move on to mainline United and I am worried about this affecting my chances of getting a job there.
In no way should this affect anyone’s future career prospects. If you run into a situation where a United mainline pilot is threatening your career advancement, please maintain your professionalism and do not escalate the situation. Explain that you have no choice but to follow guidance from our FOM and SAPA. Take down their name, and please contact our Jumpseat chairman and SAPA President Aric Arnold. We will handle it accordingly.
As for United actually slowing down or stopping hiring from SkyWest, we don’t foresee this happening in any way. It would be illegal for United to do this in retaliation for our action regarding the jumpseat, and considering that they have thousands of retirements scheduled over the next few years and they would have to stop hiring from us, Mesa and Republic, it simply isn’t feasible for them to do so and continue to operate an airline of their size. Again, if you receive threats from anyone at United or their exclusive partners, please reach out to Aric Arnold.
I am a First Officer, and I don’t want to get involved in this. Isn’t this a PIC thing anyways?
Unfortunately, allowing a pilot to list for our jumpseat and ride on-board one of our airplanes without a valid reciprocal jumpseat agreement is a violation of our FOM that places the entire flight crew at risk of being violated by the FAA. So if your captain doesn’t want to deal with this then you are going to have to step up to ensure that our FOM is followed. Your certificate is on the line in this situation just as much as the PIC’s.
Do we really want to get into a jumpseat war with United and five other carriers?
The decision to go as far as deny pilots the jumpseat was not taken lightly. This will likely cost us access to United mainline jumpseats as well as the other carriers that violated their agreements with us as a response to our action. However, the precedent that would be set if we did nothing would be even worse. Changing longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements without even renegotiating with the carrier that you have the agreement with opens up the jumpseat as a bargaining chip for any kind of dispute between carriers and will lead to many more of these kinds of situations in the future. For the sake of protecting the jumpseat as an invaluable resource that pilots have regardless of the dispute between pilot groups, we must stand together and put a stop to this unprecedented action by the United MEC.
My reliability is already marginal, and I am worried about a jumpseat war getting me into disciplinary problems with the company.
We understand the stress of adding complications to our commuters. We have been in contact with SkyWest management regarding this situation, and we have their support. While this is by no means, a get out of jail free card, but they have indicated to us that they will be understanding while this plays out. That being said, if your commute regularly involved United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet, please start looking at alternate options for your commute.
Where are we going from here?
We are closely coordinating with Republic and Mesa regarding out response as they are in the same boat we are in. We are hoping that through a unified response, the United MEC and the UAX-E partners will come to the table and negotiate a true reciprocal jumpseat agreement(s) that respect the contributions that our airlines make to the United system, as the number of flights we, Republic and Mesa operate for UAL are far in excess the flights of the UAX-E carriers combined. We will not allow unilateral action by one airline to deter us from honoring a long standing agreement that has been in place for years and is fair and equitable. Until this issue is resolved in a favorable outcome for SkyWest pilots that restores the norm, we will not back down. Please stand together with us as we fight to protect our longstanding agreements with United and United Express carriers.
When should I start denying the pilots mentioned above for our jumpseat?
The United software change, which is in violation of our reciprocal jumpseat agreements, was supposed to go into effect on Monday, October 15th. On that date, you will be in violation of our FOM if you allow a United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet pilot to utilize a reciprocal jumpseat agreement that is no longer valid.
When will I have the letter to hand to the United/UAX-E Pilots?
The letter to distribute to affected jumpseating pilots will be on SWOL on Monday, October 14th, 2019 in order to be available for printout and distribution on Tuesday, October 15th, effective date
Fellow Pilots,
As you have likely heard by now, the United ALPA Master Executive Council has decided to adjust our jumpseat agreements with them and their exclusive partners (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, and Trans States) as well as GoJet. If you haven’t yet read the letter from From Aric to our pilots and SAPA’s letter to the United ALPA MEC, and to be given to United and United Express exclusive (UAX-E) pilots attempting to jumpseat, please do so. Below is a Q&A to shed some additional light on what is going on, where we are going from here and what is expected of you as a SkyWest pilot.
What is going on? How did we get here?
Good question! For years, the United MEC (those are the guys that negotiate jumpseat agreements on behalf of United mainline pilots) have been trying to unilaterally change their jumpseat agreements with their United Express partners to prioritize United mainline pilots over other United Express pilots on United Express flights. For example, under the current agreement, if a SkyWest pilot and a United mainline pilot show up to list for the jumpseat on a United Express flight operated by ExpressJet, the priority would be time of check-in. United wants their pilots to get priority over our pilots and other United Express pilots in the example above.
United’s attempts to do this over the years were unsuccessful, due to push back from all of the United Express carriers and their pilots. The recent announcement of “exclusive” United Express partners that fly only for United (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) changed the equation as those carriers have capitulated and acquiesced to United’s proposed changes in return for priority on United and United Express flights above non-exclusive United Express carriers including ourselves, Mesa and Republic.
This came to a head this month when, without warning, the United MEC announced changes to their United’s gate software handling jumpseat priority on United and United Express exclusive carriers, (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) effective October 15th. Additionally, they released new priority literature to their pilot group. The changes placed UAL and UAX-E pilots ahead of United Express non-exclusive pilots on UAL and UAX flights, in violation of our existing agreement. In an additional rub, UALPA made ANY priority to United Express non-exclusive (us) pilots on UAL and UAX-E flights over offline pilots contingent on our acquiescence to these changes. If we accepted, we would be given priority offline pilots but below United mainline and their exclusive carriers. If we didn’t accept, we would be relegated the same priority as any offline carrier pilot who may support or work for a competitor. Of the UAX non-exclusive carriers, GoJet caved and accepted the changes and as such they are the sole pilot group within the UAX non-exclusive tier falling behind UAL and UAX-E pilots but above offline carriers including us, Republic and Mesa, placing themselves in violation of the reciprocal jumpseat agreement they have with us.
Ultimately the software change directed by the United MEC places our priority on ALL UAL and UAX flights as offline pilots, in direct violation of our agreement with United and UAX-E carriers but more critically in violation of our FOM. While the software change was not scheduled to go into effect until October 15th, we have confirmed that it has been put into immediate effect, meaning as of now, gate agents are improperly sorting jumpseat requests on SkyWest operated flights and putting the flight crew in violation of our FOM without any intervention from the PIC.
How does this affect me as a SkyWest pilot?
1. Most obviously, the loss of priority on UAL and UAX-E flights which is detailed above.
2. More critically, the software change places our flight crews in direct violation of our own FOM when operating a United branded flight with a jumpseater. YOU CAN FACE CERTIFICATE ACTION BY THE FAA for violating the FOM. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to do “the walk” up to the gate to ensure proper sorting of jumpseat requests. AGAIN, YOUR CERTIFICATE IS CURRENTLY AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT ENSURE THAT OUR FOM IS FOLLOWED in regard to jumpseat priority. As UAL and UAX-E partners, as well as GoJet, have violated our reciprocal jumpseat agreements with them, we consider those agreements null and void. THEREFORE, NO UNITED MAINLINE PILOT OR THEIR EXCLUSIVE PARTNERS (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States), AS WELL AS GOJET, CAN UTILIZE THEIR JUMPSEAT AGREEMENT WITH US, as such agreement no longer exists.
Wait, you want me to deny all United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet pilots the jumpseat?
Yes, this is what we are forced to do to avoid violating our own FOM until a proper agreement can be put back in place.
What if there is room in the back? Does this only refer to sitting in the actual jumpseat?
No, as reciprocal jumpseat agreements cover all utilization of jumpseat requests and we no longer have a valid agreement with United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet, this includes any listing request for the jumpseat regardless if there are seats in the back available for all jumpseaters listed.
Does this include non-United branded SkyWest flights?
Yes, because United is unwilling to work with us to correct the FOM violation. We can not carry United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States or GoJet pilots that would willfully violate longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements with us.
How am I supposed to handle denying the jumpseat to those pilots? I hate denying anyone a ride home.
Please ensure that you make the walk up to the gate area on each flight, regardless of partner. Take your EFB with you that has the FOM as well as multiple copies of the letter that we provided to you for United mainline and exclusive carriers and GoJet. Go out of your way to be respectful and explain the situation to each pilot that you need to deny the jumpseat to. Remind them that they can still use pass travel benefits or ZED fares to attempt to get a seat in the back. Most importantly, please take the time to educate yourself on this issue and be able to explain why you are denying them the jumpseat. Explain that allowing them to list for the jumpseat is forcing you to violate your own FOM, and your certificate could be at risk as a result of you letting them list for our jumpseat without a valid agreement in place. If you need further clarification on this, please reach out to any SAPA rep. Lastly, please stay tuned to communications from SAPA regarding this issue as it is ever-evolving. We hope to have a resolution in place soon that will allow for continued use of our jumpseat by United pilots and their exclusive partners without us violating our own FOM.
I am hoping to one day move on to mainline United and I am worried about this affecting my chances of getting a job there.
In no way should this affect anyone’s future career prospects. If you run into a situation where a United mainline pilot is threatening your career advancement, please maintain your professionalism and do not escalate the situation. Explain that you have no choice but to follow guidance from our FOM and SAPA. Take down their name, and please contact our Jumpseat chairman and SAPA President Aric Arnold. We will handle it accordingly.
As for United actually slowing down or stopping hiring from SkyWest, we don’t foresee this happening in any way. It would be illegal for United to do this in retaliation for our action regarding the jumpseat, and considering that they have thousands of retirements scheduled over the next few years and they would have to stop hiring from us, Mesa and Republic, it simply isn’t feasible for them to do so and continue to operate an airline of their size. Again, if you receive threats from anyone at United or their exclusive partners, please reach out to Aric Arnold.
I am a First Officer, and I don’t want to get involved in this. Isn’t this a PIC thing anyways?
Unfortunately, allowing a pilot to list for our jumpseat and ride on-board one of our airplanes without a valid reciprocal jumpseat agreement is a violation of our FOM that places the entire flight crew at risk of being violated by the FAA. So if your captain doesn’t want to deal with this then you are going to have to step up to ensure that our FOM is followed. Your certificate is on the line in this situation just as much as the PIC’s.
Do we really want to get into a jumpseat war with United and five other carriers?
The decision to go as far as deny pilots the jumpseat was not taken lightly. This will likely cost us access to United mainline jumpseats as well as the other carriers that violated their agreements with us as a response to our action. However, the precedent that would be set if we did nothing would be even worse. Changing longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements without even renegotiating with the carrier that you have the agreement with opens up the jumpseat as a bargaining chip for any kind of dispute between carriers and will lead to many more of these kinds of situations in the future. For the sake of protecting the jumpseat as an invaluable resource that pilots have regardless of the dispute between pilot groups, we must stand together and put a stop to this unprecedented action by the United MEC.
My reliability is already marginal, and I am worried about a jumpseat war getting me into disciplinary problems with the company.
We understand the stress of adding complications to our commuters. We have been in contact with SkyWest management regarding this situation, and we have their support. While this is by no means, a get out of jail free card, but they have indicated to us that they will be understanding while this plays out. That being said, if your commute regularly involved United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet, please start looking at alternate options for your commute.
Where are we going from here?
We are closely coordinating with Republic and Mesa regarding out response as they are in the same boat we are in. We are hoping that through a unified response, the United MEC and the UAX-E partners will come to the table and negotiate a true reciprocal jumpseat agreement(s) that respect the contributions that our airlines make to the United system, as the number of flights we, Republic and Mesa operate for UAL are far in excess the flights of the UAX-E carriers combined. We will not allow unilateral action by one airline to deter us from honoring a long standing agreement that has been in place for years and is fair and equitable. Until this issue is resolved in a favorable outcome for SkyWest pilots that restores the norm, we will not back down. Please stand together with us as we fight to protect our longstanding agreements with United and United Express carriers.
When should I start denying the pilots mentioned above for our jumpseat?
The United software change, which is in violation of our reciprocal jumpseat agreements, was supposed to go into effect on Monday, October 15th. On that date, you will be in violation of our FOM if you allow a United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet pilot to utilize a reciprocal jumpseat agreement that is no longer valid.
When will I have the letter to hand to the United/UAX-E Pilots?
The letter to distribute to affected jumpseating pilots will be on SWOL on Monday, October 14th, 2019 in order to be available for printout and distribution on Tuesday, October 15th, effective date
10-18-2019, 12:09 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 909
As usual the koolaid is strong at skw... lol
10-18-2019, 12:10 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
so here is the Skywest version to their pilots......I understand thy are also supposed to deny Delta also(this may be incorrect)...
Fellow Pilots,
As you have likely heard by now, the United ALPA Master Executive Council has decided to adjust our jumpseat agreements with them and their exclusive partners (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, and Trans States) as well as GoJet. If you haven’t yet read the letter from From Aric to our pilots and SAPA’s letter to the United ALPA MEC, and to be given to United and United Express exclusive (UAX-E) pilots attempting to jumpseat, please do so. Below is a Q&A to shed some additional light on what is going on, where we are going from here and what is expected of you as a SkyWest pilot.
What is going on? How did we get here?
Good question! For years, the United MEC (those are the guys that negotiate jumpseat agreements on behalf of United mainline pilots) have been trying to unilaterally change their jumpseat agreements with their United Express partners to prioritize United mainline pilots over other United Express pilots on United Express flights. For example, under the current agreement, if a SkyWest pilot and a United mainline pilot show up to list for the jumpseat on a United Express flight operated by ExpressJet, the priority would be time of check-in. United wants their pilots to get priority over our pilots and other United Express pilots in the example above.
United’s attempts to do this over the years were unsuccessful, due to push back from all of the United Express carriers and their pilots. The recent announcement of “exclusive” United Express partners that fly only for United (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) changed the equation as those carriers have capitulated and acquiesced to United’s proposed changes in return for priority on United and United Express flights above non-exclusive United Express carriers including ourselves, Mesa and Republic.
This came to a head this month when, without warning, the United MEC announced changes to their United’s gate software handling jumpseat priority on United and United Express exclusive carriers, (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) effective October 15th. Additionally, they released new priority literature to their pilot group. The changes placed UAL and UAX-E pilots ahead of United Express non-exclusive pilots on UAL and UAX flights, in violation of our existing agreement. In an additional rub, UALPA made ANY priority to United Express non-exclusive (us) pilots on UAL and UAX-E flights over offline pilots contingent on our acquiescence to these changes. If we accepted, we would be given priority offline pilots but below United mainline and their exclusive carriers. If we didn’t accept, we would be relegated the same priority as any offline carrier pilot who may support or work for a competitor. Of the UAX non-exclusive carriers, GoJet caved and accepted the changes and as such they are the sole pilot group within the UAX non-exclusive tier falling behind UAL and UAX-E pilots but above offline carriers including us, Republic and Mesa, placing themselves in violation of the reciprocal jumpseat agreement they have with us.
Ultimately the software change directed by the United MEC places our priority on ALL UAL and UAX flights as offline pilots, in direct violation of our agreement with United and UAX-E carriers but more critically in violation of our FOM. While the software change was not scheduled to go into effect until October 15th, we have confirmed that it has been put into immediate effect, meaning as of now, gate agents are improperly sorting jumpseat requests on SkyWest operated flights and putting the flight crew in violation of our FOM without any intervention from the PIC.
How does this affect me as a SkyWest pilot?
1. Most obviously, the loss of priority on UAL and UAX-E flights which is detailed above.
2. More critically, the software change places our flight crews in direct violation of our own FOM when operating a United branded flight with a jumpseater. YOU CAN FACE CERTIFICATE ACTION BY THE FAA for violating the FOM. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to do “the walk” up to the gate to ensure proper sorting of jumpseat requests. AGAIN, YOUR CERTIFICATE IS CURRENTLY AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT ENSURE THAT OUR FOM IS FOLLOWED in regard to jumpseat priority. As UAL and UAX-E partners, as well as GoJet, have violated our reciprocal jumpseat agreements with them, we consider those agreements null and void. THEREFORE, NO UNITED MAINLINE PILOT OR THEIR EXCLUSIVE PARTNERS (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States), AS WELL AS GOJET, CAN UTILIZE THEIR JUMPSEAT AGREEMENT WITH US, as such agreement no longer exists.
Wait, you want me to deny all United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet pilots the jumpseat?
Yes, this is what we are forced to do to avoid violating our own FOM until a proper agreement can be put back in place.
What if there is room in the back? Does this only refer to sitting in the actual jumpseat?
No, as reciprocal jumpseat agreements cover all utilization of jumpseat requests and we no longer have a valid agreement with United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet, this includes any listing request for the jumpseat regardless if there are seats in the back available for all jumpseaters listed.
Does this include non-United branded SkyWest flights?
Yes, because United is unwilling to work with us to correct the FOM violation. We can not carry United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States or GoJet pilots that would willfully violate longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements with us.
How am I supposed to handle denying the jumpseat to those pilots? I hate denying anyone a ride home.
Please ensure that you make the walk up to the gate area on each flight, regardless of partner. Take your EFB with you that has the FOM as well as multiple copies of the letter that we provided to you for United mainline and exclusive carriers and GoJet. Go out of your way to be respectful and explain the situation to each pilot that you need to deny the jumpseat to. Remind them that they can still use pass travel benefits or ZED fares to attempt to get a seat in the back. Most importantly, please take the time to educate yourself on this issue and be able to explain why you are denying them the jumpseat. Explain that allowing them to list for the jumpseat is forcing you to violate your own FOM, and your certificate could be at risk as a result of you letting them list for our jumpseat without a valid agreement in place. If you need further clarification on this, please reach out to any SAPA rep. Lastly, please stay tuned to communications from SAPA regarding this issue as it is ever-evolving. We hope to have a resolution in place soon that will allow for continued use of our jumpseat by United pilots and their exclusive partners without us violating our own FOM.
I am hoping to one day move on to mainline United and I am worried about this affecting my chances of getting a job there.
In no way should this affect anyone’s future career prospects. If you run into a situation where a United mainline pilot is threatening your career advancement, please maintain your professionalism and do not escalate the situation. Explain that you have no choice but to follow guidance from our FOM and SAPA. Take down their name, and please contact our Jumpseat chairman and SAPA President Aric Arnold. We will handle it accordingly.
As for United actually slowing down or stopping hiring from SkyWest, we don’t foresee this happening in any way. It would be illegal for United to do this in retaliation for our action regarding the jumpseat, and considering that they have thousands of retirements scheduled over the next few years and they would have to stop hiring from us, Mesa and Republic, it simply isn’t feasible for them to do so and continue to operate an airline of their size. Again, if you receive threats from anyone at United or their exclusive partners, please reach out to Aric Arnold.
I am a First Officer, and I don’t want to get involved in this. Isn’t this a PIC thing anyways?
Unfortunately, allowing a pilot to list for our jumpseat and ride on-board one of our airplanes without a valid reciprocal jumpseat agreement is a violation of our FOM that places the entire flight crew at risk of being violated by the FAA. So if your captain doesn’t want to deal with this then you are going to have to step up to ensure that our FOM is followed. Your certificate is on the line in this situation just as much as the PIC’s.
Do we really want to get into a jumpseat war with United and five other carriers?
The decision to go as far as deny pilots the jumpseat was not taken lightly. This will likely cost us access to United mainline jumpseats as well as the other carriers that violated their agreements with us as a response to our action. However, the precedent that would be set if we did nothing would be even worse. Changing longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements without even renegotiating with the carrier that you have the agreement with opens up the jumpseat as a bargaining chip for any kind of dispute between carriers and will lead to many more of these kinds of situations in the future. For the sake of protecting the jumpseat as an invaluable resource that pilots have regardless of the dispute between pilot groups, we must stand together and put a stop to this unprecedented action by the United MEC.
My reliability is already marginal, and I am worried about a jumpseat war getting me into disciplinary problems with the company.
We understand the stress of adding complications to our commuters. We have been in contact with SkyWest management regarding this situation, and we have their support. While this is by no means, a get out of jail free card, but they have indicated to us that they will be understanding while this plays out. That being said, if your commute regularly involved United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet, please start looking at alternate options for your commute.
Where are we going from here?
We are closely coordinating with Republic and Mesa regarding out response as they are in the same boat we are in. We are hoping that through a unified response, the United MEC and the UAX-E partners will come to the table and negotiate a true reciprocal jumpseat agreement(s) that respect the contributions that our airlines make to the United system, as the number of flights we, Republic and Mesa operate for UAL are far in excess the flights of the UAX-E carriers combined. We will not allow unilateral action by one airline to deter us from honoring a long standing agreement that has been in place for years and is fair and equitable. Until this issue is resolved in a favorable outcome for SkyWest pilots that restores the norm, we will not back down. Please stand together with us as we fight to protect our longstanding agreements with United and United Express carriers.
When should I start denying the pilots mentioned above for our jumpseat?
The United software change, which is in violation of our reciprocal jumpseat agreements, was supposed to go into effect on Monday, October 15th. On that date, you will be in violation of our FOM if you allow a United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet pilot to utilize a reciprocal jumpseat agreement that is no longer valid.
When will I have the letter to hand to the United/UAX-E Pilots?
The letter to distribute to affected jumpseating pilots will be on SWOL on Monday, October 14th, 2019 in order to be available for printout and distribution on Tuesday, October 15th, effective date
Fellow Pilots,
As you have likely heard by now, the United ALPA Master Executive Council has decided to adjust our jumpseat agreements with them and their exclusive partners (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, and Trans States) as well as GoJet. If you haven’t yet read the letter from From Aric to our pilots and SAPA’s letter to the United ALPA MEC, and to be given to United and United Express exclusive (UAX-E) pilots attempting to jumpseat, please do so. Below is a Q&A to shed some additional light on what is going on, where we are going from here and what is expected of you as a SkyWest pilot.
What is going on? How did we get here?
Good question! For years, the United MEC (those are the guys that negotiate jumpseat agreements on behalf of United mainline pilots) have been trying to unilaterally change their jumpseat agreements with their United Express partners to prioritize United mainline pilots over other United Express pilots on United Express flights. For example, under the current agreement, if a SkyWest pilot and a United mainline pilot show up to list for the jumpseat on a United Express flight operated by ExpressJet, the priority would be time of check-in. United wants their pilots to get priority over our pilots and other United Express pilots in the example above.
United’s attempts to do this over the years were unsuccessful, due to push back from all of the United Express carriers and their pilots. The recent announcement of “exclusive” United Express partners that fly only for United (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) changed the equation as those carriers have capitulated and acquiesced to United’s proposed changes in return for priority on United and United Express flights above non-exclusive United Express carriers including ourselves, Mesa and Republic.
This came to a head this month when, without warning, the United MEC announced changes to their United’s gate software handling jumpseat priority on United and United Express exclusive carriers, (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States) effective October 15th. Additionally, they released new priority literature to their pilot group. The changes placed UAL and UAX-E pilots ahead of United Express non-exclusive pilots on UAL and UAX flights, in violation of our existing agreement. In an additional rub, UALPA made ANY priority to United Express non-exclusive (us) pilots on UAL and UAX-E flights over offline pilots contingent on our acquiescence to these changes. If we accepted, we would be given priority offline pilots but below United mainline and their exclusive carriers. If we didn’t accept, we would be relegated the same priority as any offline carrier pilot who may support or work for a competitor. Of the UAX non-exclusive carriers, GoJet caved and accepted the changes and as such they are the sole pilot group within the UAX non-exclusive tier falling behind UAL and UAX-E pilots but above offline carriers including us, Republic and Mesa, placing themselves in violation of the reciprocal jumpseat agreement they have with us.
Ultimately the software change directed by the United MEC places our priority on ALL UAL and UAX flights as offline pilots, in direct violation of our agreement with United and UAX-E carriers but more critically in violation of our FOM. While the software change was not scheduled to go into effect until October 15th, we have confirmed that it has been put into immediate effect, meaning as of now, gate agents are improperly sorting jumpseat requests on SkyWest operated flights and putting the flight crew in violation of our FOM without any intervention from the PIC.
How does this affect me as a SkyWest pilot?
1. Most obviously, the loss of priority on UAL and UAX-E flights which is detailed above.
2. More critically, the software change places our flight crews in direct violation of our own FOM when operating a United branded flight with a jumpseater. YOU CAN FACE CERTIFICATE ACTION BY THE FAA for violating the FOM. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to do “the walk” up to the gate to ensure proper sorting of jumpseat requests. AGAIN, YOUR CERTIFICATE IS CURRENTLY AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT ENSURE THAT OUR FOM IS FOLLOWED in regard to jumpseat priority. As UAL and UAX-E partners, as well as GoJet, have violated our reciprocal jumpseat agreements with them, we consider those agreements null and void. THEREFORE, NO UNITED MAINLINE PILOT OR THEIR EXCLUSIVE PARTNERS (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir and Trans States), AS WELL AS GOJET, CAN UTILIZE THEIR JUMPSEAT AGREEMENT WITH US, as such agreement no longer exists.
Wait, you want me to deny all United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet pilots the jumpseat?
Yes, this is what we are forced to do to avoid violating our own FOM until a proper agreement can be put back in place.
What if there is room in the back? Does this only refer to sitting in the actual jumpseat?
No, as reciprocal jumpseat agreements cover all utilization of jumpseat requests and we no longer have a valid agreement with United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States and GoJet, this includes any listing request for the jumpseat regardless if there are seats in the back available for all jumpseaters listed.
Does this include non-United branded SkyWest flights?
Yes, because United is unwilling to work with us to correct the FOM violation. We can not carry United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States or GoJet pilots that would willfully violate longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements with us.
How am I supposed to handle denying the jumpseat to those pilots? I hate denying anyone a ride home.
Please ensure that you make the walk up to the gate area on each flight, regardless of partner. Take your EFB with you that has the FOM as well as multiple copies of the letter that we provided to you for United mainline and exclusive carriers and GoJet. Go out of your way to be respectful and explain the situation to each pilot that you need to deny the jumpseat to. Remind them that they can still use pass travel benefits or ZED fares to attempt to get a seat in the back. Most importantly, please take the time to educate yourself on this issue and be able to explain why you are denying them the jumpseat. Explain that allowing them to list for the jumpseat is forcing you to violate your own FOM, and your certificate could be at risk as a result of you letting them list for our jumpseat without a valid agreement in place. If you need further clarification on this, please reach out to any SAPA rep. Lastly, please stay tuned to communications from SAPA regarding this issue as it is ever-evolving. We hope to have a resolution in place soon that will allow for continued use of our jumpseat by United pilots and their exclusive partners without us violating our own FOM.
I am hoping to one day move on to mainline United and I am worried about this affecting my chances of getting a job there.
In no way should this affect anyone’s future career prospects. If you run into a situation where a United mainline pilot is threatening your career advancement, please maintain your professionalism and do not escalate the situation. Explain that you have no choice but to follow guidance from our FOM and SAPA. Take down their name, and please contact our Jumpseat chairman and SAPA President Aric Arnold. We will handle it accordingly.
As for United actually slowing down or stopping hiring from SkyWest, we don’t foresee this happening in any way. It would be illegal for United to do this in retaliation for our action regarding the jumpseat, and considering that they have thousands of retirements scheduled over the next few years and they would have to stop hiring from us, Mesa and Republic, it simply isn’t feasible for them to do so and continue to operate an airline of their size. Again, if you receive threats from anyone at United or their exclusive partners, please reach out to Aric Arnold.
I am a First Officer, and I don’t want to get involved in this. Isn’t this a PIC thing anyways?
Unfortunately, allowing a pilot to list for our jumpseat and ride on-board one of our airplanes without a valid reciprocal jumpseat agreement is a violation of our FOM that places the entire flight crew at risk of being violated by the FAA. So if your captain doesn’t want to deal with this then you are going to have to step up to ensure that our FOM is followed. Your certificate is on the line in this situation just as much as the PIC’s.
Do we really want to get into a jumpseat war with United and five other carriers?
The decision to go as far as deny pilots the jumpseat was not taken lightly. This will likely cost us access to United mainline jumpseats as well as the other carriers that violated their agreements with us as a response to our action. However, the precedent that would be set if we did nothing would be even worse. Changing longstanding reciprocal jumpseat agreements without even renegotiating with the carrier that you have the agreement with opens up the jumpseat as a bargaining chip for any kind of dispute between carriers and will lead to many more of these kinds of situations in the future. For the sake of protecting the jumpseat as an invaluable resource that pilots have regardless of the dispute between pilot groups, we must stand together and put a stop to this unprecedented action by the United MEC.
My reliability is already marginal, and I am worried about a jumpseat war getting me into disciplinary problems with the company.
We understand the stress of adding complications to our commuters. We have been in contact with SkyWest management regarding this situation, and we have their support. While this is by no means, a get out of jail free card, but they have indicated to us that they will be understanding while this plays out. That being said, if your commute regularly involved United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet, please start looking at alternate options for your commute.
Where are we going from here?
We are closely coordinating with Republic and Mesa regarding out response as they are in the same boat we are in. We are hoping that through a unified response, the United MEC and the UAX-E partners will come to the table and negotiate a true reciprocal jumpseat agreement(s) that respect the contributions that our airlines make to the United system, as the number of flights we, Republic and Mesa operate for UAL are far in excess the flights of the UAX-E carriers combined. We will not allow unilateral action by one airline to deter us from honoring a long standing agreement that has been in place for years and is fair and equitable. Until this issue is resolved in a favorable outcome for SkyWest pilots that restores the norm, we will not back down. Please stand together with us as we fight to protect our longstanding agreements with United and United Express carriers.
When should I start denying the pilots mentioned above for our jumpseat?
The United software change, which is in violation of our reciprocal jumpseat agreements, was supposed to go into effect on Monday, October 15th. On that date, you will be in violation of our FOM if you allow a United mainline, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, CommutAir, Trans States, or GoJet pilot to utilize a reciprocal jumpseat agreement that is no longer valid.
When will I have the letter to hand to the United/UAX-E Pilots?
The letter to distribute to affected jumpseating pilots will be on SWOL on Monday, October 14th, 2019 in order to be available for printout and distribution on Tuesday, October 15th, effective date
the good news is their fantasy land has ended and they agreed to what United wanted.
10-18-2019, 12:14 PM
#89
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Agreed Scoop, but there are reams of pages over on the United site. It appears the Union/assn of the regional put out a letter saying that since no JS agreement has been signed then it is against their FOM....therefor a FOM violation which could result in ticket action......or something to that effect
If you have a coupla hours go over to the United forum and you can read all the gory details
If you have a coupla hours go over to the United forum and you can read all the gory details
Scoop
10-18-2019, 02:41 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
A little thread drift but........if Skywest interpretation of a FOM non-flying event being actionable for certificate by FAA.........
could they jerk my ticket for for FOM violations like...wearing a Halloween tie?..... a St Patties day tie?.... or wing tip shoes.......my hair being on my collar? .....mustache beyond the corner of my mouth?
Heard Skywest wasn't allowing JS by United pilots nor a flow back to open seats.
Heard it ended when United pilots who were denied the JS started taking names.....senior capt's with no desire to leave scaring the shiznit outta the FO's who want to bail at first opportunity worried they might be blackballed
could they jerk my ticket for for FOM violations like...wearing a Halloween tie?..... a St Patties day tie?.... or wing tip shoes.......my hair being on my collar? .....mustache beyond the corner of my mouth?
Heard Skywest wasn't allowing JS by United pilots nor a flow back to open seats.
Heard it ended when United pilots who were denied the JS started taking names.....senior capt's with no desire to leave scaring the shiznit outta the FO's who want to bail at first opportunity worried they might be blackballed
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