Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > Delta
23K/Recovery Questions Thread >

23K/Recovery Questions Thread

Search

Notices

23K/Recovery Questions Thread

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-31-2020, 10:28 AM
  #191  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,529
Default

Originally Posted by captkdobbs
Something I thought about over lunch: If a trip change occurred due to an equipment substitution as it did in my case, the legs showed up as a new trip in the other equipment's open time, but did nothing in the original equipment open time.

I'm guessing that, with CS putting out so many fires left and right, since my trip isn't flagging any legalities or mis-connects, it's just not on their radar. (I'm trying to logic why my trips haven't been NOOP'd yet. I know, I know, logic isn't allowed in the current discussion.)

On the subject of GS over a 23K (no obligation) scenario: do you think that the automated system can't see you as available since you have something on your schedule? I don't know how the automated system 'sees' the 23K trip.
Thats my thought. Still seeing GSs going out (1/dayish) but 0 calls for me.
fishforfun is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:30 AM
  #192  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Default

Originally Posted by fishforfun
I had to do the same, commute night before. I don’t mind doing my job but this is getting out of hand. I don’t see how the schedulers haven’t caught up yet. Before they NOOPd my rotation, they built an out and back double deadhead right back to my original layover location. Deadhead to SLC the deadhead back to MSP, which is where I was starting day 2. I knew then I made a mistake commuting in.
Well before I decided to call CS, I emailed the DALPA scheduling folks. Sent them screen shot of the Fly Delta flight info that had changed as well as my original rotation.

About 6-9 minutes ago my rotation just showed up as NOOP. So I guess CS is kinda of in a melt down right now?? Although I didn't end up having to call and inquire, I would recommend that in addition to any calls maybe send the DALPA scheduling folks screen shots of what your are seeing. My guess is this is pretty rampant right now.
Drum is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:37 AM
  #193  
Roll’n Thunder
 
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,891
Default

Originally Posted by Drum
Well before I decided to call CS, I emailed the DALPA scheduling folks. Sent them screen shot of the Fly Delta flight info that had changed as well as my original rotation.

About 6-9 minutes ago my rotation just showed up as NOOP. So I guess CS is kinda of in a melt down right now?? Although I didn't end up having to call and inquire, I would recommend that in addition to any calls maybe send the DALPA scheduling folks screen shots of what your are seeing. My guess is this is pretty rampant right now.
Speaking of meltdowns, it appears that icrew is down again.
tennisguru is online now  
Old 03-31-2020, 10:49 AM
  #194  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: The Beginnings
Posts: 1,317
Default

Originally Posted by Jaww
Yes, you’re pay protected. Give it a few days and check time card.
Days. Or months. Per company update today this may take 4 or more weeks due to the backlog.
deltabound is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 11:33 AM
  #195  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 55
Default

Somewhere on here someone said day trips that get NOOPed cant 23K because of the new 12 hour rule. How does the 12 hour rule work? I thought it was from any point. In other words, lets say you have a 1400 sign in for day trip. I thought they could call you at 0200 and give you something for recovery, but is that not the case? The 12 hour starts from the original report?

Different scenario, lets say they 23k your 2/3/4 day trip that signed in at 1800, they do this the day before or two days before. You are under 23.K.1.b ...they have to "assign" you something within 6 hours after the original report (assignment vs report is something different, as far as I can tell). So if the original sign in was at 1800, they have until midnight to make an assignment. The report for that assignment can start no later than 0600 the next day (with the new 12 hour rule)?

So the report can come on any day of the trip? In other words, they can give you something on the third day of the trip, starting at any time (as long as it gets back no later than 4 hours after your original block in)?
easternguy is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:36 PM
  #196  
Back on Reserve
 
captkdobbs's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: A330 FO
Posts: 728
Default

Scenario: 1-day trip original show 8am release 7pm NOOP shows on your schedule and you get notified at 6pm day prior. On that call they can assign you something that shows no earlier than 8am and releases no later than 11pm (original + 4hrs)
-or-
You are obligated to 23K recovery assignment from 8am to 2pm -BUT- with the new rules, they must give you 12 hours to report for the 23K assignment and it would still have to release no later than 11pm. There's no way they can call you at 8am, give you 12 hours notice and get you back within your recovery window. Thus, you can't be used unless they tag you at the time of the NOOP notification. The one scenario I haven't found an answer to is, if they NOOP your rotation a week out, can they TRY to notify you of a 23K recovery trip anytime up to your original show time, because the way I read it is that, as a line-holder there's no requirement to be contactable on off days.

Under the old rules you'd be obligated to 23K recovery assignment (basically be on short-call RES) from 8:am to 2pm. Anything they assigned you would have to release no later than 11pm.
captkdobbs is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:39 PM
  #197  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,418
Default

Originally Posted by easternguy
Somewhere on here someone said day trips that get NOOPed cant 23K because of the new 12 hour rule. How does the 12 hour rule work? I thought it was from any point. In other words, lets say you have a 1400 sign in for day trip. I thought they could call you at 0200 and give you something for recovery, but is that not the case? The 12 hour starts from the original report?

Different scenario, lets say they 23k your 2/3/4 day trip that signed in at 1800, they do this the day before or two days before. You are under 23.K.1.b ...they have to "assign" you something within 6 hours after the original report (assignment vs report is something different, as far as I can tell). So if the original sign in was at 1800, they have until midnight to make an assignment. The report for that assignment can start no later than 0600 the next day (with the new 12 hour rule)?

So the report can come on any day of the trip? In other words, they can give you something on the third day of the trip, starting at any time (as long as it gets back no later than 4 hours after your original block in)?
The 12 hour call out only applies if the pilot acknowledges the NOOP. Any rotation awarded to the pilot inside the 6 hour recovery window will have a minimum of 12 hours until report.

If they don't acknowledge, they are required to report as scheduled, they will start a RAP. Must remain available for immediate assignment within 6 hour recovery window. The COVID-19 12-hour call out DOES NOT apply in this scenario.

Yes, the 23K recovery rotation needs to fit inside the footprint of the original rotation
DWC CAP10 USAF is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 01:45 PM
  #198  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 49
Default

Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF
The 12 hour call out only applies if the pilot acknowledges the NOOP. Any rotation awarded to the pilot inside the 6 hour recovery window will have a minimum of 12 hours until report.

If they don't acknowledge, they are required to report as scheduled, they will start a RAP. Must remain available for immediate assignment within 6 hour recovery window. The COVID-19 12-hour call out DOES NOT apply in this scenario.

Yes, the 23K recovery rotation needs to fit inside the footprint of the original rotation
To tag on... 5 day trip starting sat with all but 1 random leg cancelled. I'm assuming as it gets closer they will NOOP the trip. Normally I would acknowledge the automated call and hope for illegal double 23m recovery. In this case they have a bunch of trips that I would be legal to do and would rather not. If it noops can I not acknowledge and show at the original time and be on a 6 hr call out? Hoping that the trips are already assigned the day before which I believe they will be?
dashdriver44 is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 02:53 PM
  #199  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,418
Default

Originally Posted by dashdriver44
To tag on... 5 day trip starting sat with all but 1 random leg cancelled. I'm assuming as it gets closer they will NOOP the trip. Normally I would acknowledge the automated call and hope for illegal double 23m recovery. In this case they have a bunch of trips that I would be legal to do and would rather not. If it noops can I not acknowledge and show at the original time and be on a 6 hr call out? Hoping that the trips are already assigned the day before which I believe they will be?
Yes....don't ACK and then you are required to report at original report time.

It's not a 6 hour call out, you start your 6 hour window where they can assign you recovery flying. Your RAP start at original report time, but you must remain available for immediate assignment, think airport standby.
DWC CAP10 USAF is offline  
Old 03-31-2020, 02:58 PM
  #200  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 49
Default

Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF
Yes....don't ACK and then you are required to report at original report time.

It's not a 6 hour call out, you start your 6 hour window where they can assign you recovery flying. Your RAP start at original report time, but you must remain available for immediate assignment, think airport standby.
That's what I thought. I still think it's better than dealing with a 4 day they would assign me. Thanks
dashdriver44 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
2GoodEngines
ExpressJet
27
01-21-2020 06:49 PM
CaptainCarl
Trans States Airlines
10900
12-31-2015 11:54 AM
Pinchanickled
Regional
11
12-21-2010 03:58 PM
vagabond
Cargo
4
12-14-2010 06:03 AM
meloveboeing
Regional
5
10-02-2010 07:47 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices