MEC Early Out Comm
05-15-2020 | 12:59 PM
#171
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Were you just pulling my chain, or was your response on the level?
05-15-2020 | 01:53 PM
#172
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Yeah. But that language didnt exist when that manning need event occurred.
And it wasnt a memrat approved concession. It would have been a close vote imho. It was also extended when mgmt needed it to be.
mgmt is free to drop any package on the table they want. If its a crappy deal nobody takes it. If its a windfall its gona be hilarious to watch a mec fight to take that dream offer away from 60+ yr old line pilots
Its no stretch for me to imagine a unilateral offer plan that is targeted at prexisting morbidity covid vulnerable pilots
And it wasnt a memrat approved concession. It would have been a close vote imho. It was also extended when mgmt needed it to be.
mgmt is free to drop any package on the table they want. If its a crappy deal nobody takes it. If its a windfall its gona be hilarious to watch a mec fight to take that dream offer away from 60+ yr old line pilots
Its no stretch for me to imagine a unilateral offer plan that is targeted at prexisting morbidity covid vulnerable pilots
The company can always do what it wants, the question is what happens after the fact. In the case of retired pilots, it looks like the parties got together to formalize an agreement. I’m sure that if the pilots rehired were put back into their old place on the seniority list a grievance absolutely would have happened (and it would have been easily won by ALPA).
In your world where the company can pay outside of the pwa do you think they could raise pay rates as long as it was equal? Lower them? What exactly is the line that they can’t cross if any?
05-16-2020 | 04:20 AM
#173
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‘My guess is for a couple reasons. One, they can get a good idea of the cost associated with training after a displacement bid. Two, if an ERP gets negotiated they can adjust any displacements awarded by simply canceling them. Three, shock and awe....better known as Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD).
Denny
Denny
A ER program that would truly be effective in reducing training costs would need to give the company the opportunity to pick who gets a ER and ignore both seniority and age.
05-16-2020 | 05:33 AM
#174
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From: DAL 330
05-16-2020 | 05:44 AM
#175
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From: DAL 330
At the risk of this being labeled a ‘rant’, I’ll give my opinion.
Years ago, when SILs were historically 55 hours, the company proposed they be reduced to 40 hours. The company informed our MEC scheduling chairman of this. He proceeded to tell the MEC chairman this, as was his duty - ‘the scheduling committee chairman ‘acts at the direction of the MEC’. No direction was given. The MEC chairman did nothing, and made no attempt to renegotiate the amount. When the information was made public some time later it caused an uproar, and the MEC chairman, desperate to deflect the criticism of inaction, promptly fired the scheduling chairman, ie shot the messenger. This behavior caused a mass walkout by some 12 SMEs, and a lot of red faces in the MEC.
Fast forward to the VB debacle. These were pulled down by the Association, some say punitively, in retaliation for the SIL embarrassment.
We arrive at the latest SIL deal/no deal, withdrawn by the company, I believe punitively, for actions by the MEC including the VB pulldown.
Neither side is innocent, but I believe our Association fired the first shot, and has since maintained a confrontational, pugnacious and largely ineffectual stance, discouraging the company from attempting any dialog. Our MEC chooses to produce newsletters bemoaning the lack of cooperation by the company in lieu of getting results.
You asked how I think the company handled it. I think they handled it badly, stooping to the tit-for-tat pettiness that is the hallmark of this MEC administration. They’re better than that (and we are too) and I was and am disappointed.
My opinion, however the lack of progress is a fact.
Years ago, when SILs were historically 55 hours, the company proposed they be reduced to 40 hours. The company informed our MEC scheduling chairman of this. He proceeded to tell the MEC chairman this, as was his duty - ‘the scheduling committee chairman ‘acts at the direction of the MEC’. No direction was given. The MEC chairman did nothing, and made no attempt to renegotiate the amount. When the information was made public some time later it caused an uproar, and the MEC chairman, desperate to deflect the criticism of inaction, promptly fired the scheduling chairman, ie shot the messenger. This behavior caused a mass walkout by some 12 SMEs, and a lot of red faces in the MEC.
Fast forward to the VB debacle. These were pulled down by the Association, some say punitively, in retaliation for the SIL embarrassment.
We arrive at the latest SIL deal/no deal, withdrawn by the company, I believe punitively, for actions by the MEC including the VB pulldown.
Neither side is innocent, but I believe our Association fired the first shot, and has since maintained a confrontational, pugnacious and largely ineffectual stance, discouraging the company from attempting any dialog. Our MEC chooses to produce newsletters bemoaning the lack of cooperation by the company in lieu of getting results.
You asked how I think the company handled it. I think they handled it badly, stooping to the tit-for-tat pettiness that is the hallmark of this MEC administration. They’re better than that (and we are too) and I was and am disappointed.
My opinion, however the lack of progress is a fact.
Correct - Blame on both sides here, but it is not equal and after speaking with both Union and Management types I would say your "Blame scale" is off.
On a 1-10 scale with a 1 (bad) being a "Lord Douchbag" and a 10 (good) being the "Dread Pirate Roberts" I would give the Union a 7 and the company a 3.
If you have not figured out the scale here are a couple of less than 30 second clips that might help explain it.
Dread Pirate Roberts on Masks - Nailed it!
Lord and lady Douchebag
05-16-2020 | 06:14 AM
#176
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From: A350 Both
Why not actually go to training at that point? It would be easy money for them. Two weeks notice? That's not even a thing WRT retiring? Why wouldn't someone in that situation at least go through training? Get paid well for a bit longer and collect another type. In the unlikely event it gets really ugly, "stop the sim, its been real y'all". Otherwise once trained, might as well do OE/TOE. Then ACARS on the last inbound and request the retirement fire hoses. If I was in that zone that's probably what I'd do.
05-16-2020 | 06:24 AM
#177
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From: A350 Both
The company has not made a proposal. The union tells us that they put together a comprehensive package. Why was it not outlined in the email? Can’t be anything secret in a ER proposal unless perhaps there were a bunch of expensive strings attached. Without seeing it I have no idea if I should be backing it or not.
05-16-2020 | 06:28 AM
#178
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We are trying to mitigate furloughs. Since when is a ER program under current conditions a concession that requires give backs by the company in other areas? If that actually is the thought process of the MEC we truly are in trouble!
05-16-2020 | 06:39 AM
#179
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Joined: May 2015
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From: A350 Both
So answer me this. What is the target demographic for an early retirement package? The guys leaving in 6 months? a year? two years? more? I think they need to get ahead of the curve and that would be anyone with 2 years or more. I think you are in the 2 or less category, so what would it take for you to hang it up? I have 5 and not that I am in any kind of target, there is no way they would even try to get me out of here.
Bottom line, I think the whole early retirement windmill hunt is a waste of time.
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