Cogf16

Agreed. Not saying we're going there, but I remember $140 an hour MD captain pay. So many unknowns but I think were probably looking at lower ALVs and lower rates, and if AA goes into BK (seems like a probable) all bets are off. And how long til we enter BK and how long does this survive in BK? Seems like taking 58 hours at current rates MIGHT be a better bet than lowere ALV and lower rates. Who knows????? I' just turned 61 with TriCare, ANG retirement and a good PBGC. Leaning heavily to taking it....

BobZ

Fwiw. Im using a 60hr alv and 10% cut in book rates for my time horizon comparison.

not going to work is more subjective a valuation.

Id say delta is probably not going away over the 36 month term of this severance.

But im betting its 100% over that 3 yrs the pilots still working are gona take 2 or 3 steps down in compensation and indirectly subsidize funding of the severance payments.

m3113n1a1

Sorry, you're right. I shouldn't have said that, it didn't help and added nothing. I like your posts on here for the record

Everyone should look at their options and make the best decision for them. Ignore what everyone else thinks. Good luck everyone!

Buck Rogers

Sa'll good. Troubling times in this state of uncertainty. No doubt, the bottom (UNA)is getting hammered, but I totally get that some of the middle of the pack are taking a huge financial hit(although they still have a job) on top of previously possibly years of stagnation and/or previous furlough themselves.

Relatively speaking, it's all roses for some at the top.Prolly sounds tone deaf to even be talking about the ER. Honestly, I wanted to inject the counter argument so the UNA's have a realistic expectation of the numbers involved of pilots who may take the ER. I'm not sure its gonna be resounding like the under 50 crowd thinks but ya never know.

I only opined, because 17ish years ago the "junior guys" were echoing the same sentiments as what is happening here now. (I was one of them). I just find it an interesting study in human nature. In the military we used to say, "The system breeds the system". As a lieutenant you can't believe how stupid the colonels and generals are. "By gosh when I reach that rank I'll fix it". Over the years, you become the system. Some of it is due to a bigger picture, some due to experience, some maturity, sometimes you just recognize some things are beyond your control...no point bucking the system, just fix what you can.And yes, sometimes, people sell their principles for promotions. Whole host of reasons, but interesting nonetheless. Seen it before(as Herkflyer said) and I was kinda in the camp of "You would be an idiot not to take the ER". I wasn't 50(a req. at the time) and it would have been a tough decision. Suffice it to say, taking an ER 17 years ago would have been the worst decision I could have made.

Good luck to all. Hopefully the union can craft an agreement that does the bestest for the mostest.

My unsoliticed advice would be don't give up anything. If you do, make sure you have snapbacks. Give ALV reductions(which the company will want to ratchet up when times are better). Never give on scope nor pay. It just resets the bar lower if Delta enters bankruptcy.

Cheers to all

Noworkallplay

Sure, I will explain it and I’m not even in the 60+ crowd, in-fact much younger. Those over 62 and at Delta most likely had a pension whipped out. They most likely went through the financial downturn and years of career stagnation. They didn’t have a big DC plan until late in their career. Just finally in the last 5 years they started to recoup some tiny portion of the losses. They finally were able to hold some sort of high paying Capt spot. All the young crowd acts like they always had 3-5 year upgrades, but that wasn’t the story for most of this 62+ crowds career. Now they are being asked to take a big pay cut for the last 3 years of their career and it’s labeled as an “early retirement” but in reality it’s an end of career pay cut. So if your not in the 62+ crowd you shouldn’t even cast your thoughts or vote because you have no clue if you would take it.

Wolf424

I know the history...most of us do at this point.

My point was simply that chastising someone for saying they would take it if they were “xx” years old is simply their opinion on what they would do. Doesn’t make it wrong or right for you, so no need to emotionally respond.

There’s a difference in someone saying “I’d take it if I were in that position” vs. “You’d be stupid not to take it.”

You mean like you just did?

Grapple

If it would have been a 5 year deal with medical (like SWA's) I would have taken it.

This just looks like a tool to get the triple & 62+ set guys to leave to save them money without really offering something a lot of the pilot group would consider.

sailingfun

The airline experienced a good recovery after 911. We were not headed to chapter 11 until 140 dollar a barrel oil hit several years later. We only avoided liquidation because almost overnight it dropped back to 40 a barrel.

NavyFlyer

Crewdog is my kindered spirit. He is me... only a few years older.

I like this perspective.


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Herkflyr

It's a good perspective, albeit not very common outside our industry. It's easy to say how great it is not going to work..
when you are still getting paid as if you still were. Try that line on someone outside our industry who just lost their job for real.

I'm all about having strong interests outside the job and living well below your means. Same house for 20 years here. Toys paid off. Haven't failed to max out the DPSP ever. I've not flown for three months and we've taken the RV on six campouts, with a seventh scheduled for this weekend.

But you know what? It's entirely possible to take great satisfaction in enjoying your profession, that you worked hard for years to enter, without it dominating your existence so much that you can't imagine life without it. It's possible to have a good life outside of aviation, while still enjoying your job during the moments you are performing it, and vice versa.