JETBLUE furlough protection LOA reached
07-02-2020 | 01:30 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Fetal
Does repeating yourself make you feel better?
Your stance can’t be clearer.
No one is advocating for anything more than an ALV reduction. I see this as an opportunity to build unity by helping my fellow pilots. I would not accept a deal that had anything more than a temporary reduction in ALV along with a commensurate reduction in days worked. That’s all it has to be and the company can waste time hoping for a “comprehensive” agreement with more gives but that certainly won’t happen. We go forward as a group and get much closer to that fabled unicorn that is “unity” by helping our brethren when times get tough.
If you can’t appreciate that gesture, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Your stance can’t be clearer.
No one is advocating for anything more than an ALV reduction. I see this as an opportunity to build unity by helping my fellow pilots. I would not accept a deal that had anything more than a temporary reduction in ALV along with a commensurate reduction in days worked. That’s all it has to be and the company can waste time hoping for a “comprehensive” agreement with more gives but that certainly won’t happen. We go forward as a group and get much closer to that fabled unicorn that is “unity” by helping our brethren when times get tough.
If you can’t appreciate that gesture, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
How much of a give would be appropriate to help my fellow pilots? I’m at 32% without an ALV reduction that has proven in past practice to not effectively alleviate furloughs. Is more appropriate?
07-02-2020 | 01:37 PM
#112
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Joined: Mar 2016
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From: Here and there
Did you have an LOA to not furlough for a period of time that came along with that 32% cut?
I don’t have an answer because that’s ALPA’s job to come up with a number as they have access to data that I don’t have. I have an hour number in mind but that’s purely based on my personal financial situation.
The bottom line is I would keep an open mind to what ALPA comes up with if there are no other concessions tied to it.
07-02-2020 | 01:37 PM
#113
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 740
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No false equivalency. We just are looking 5-15 years down the road not 2 feet in front of our face. You have a history of giving concessions. We don't want it. Simple.
We know you are going to green slip when we are on the street. Fine. It's already happening with the first round of folks on UNA. We don't want you to pork away what we have right now in the PWA. It's really that simple.
3 other airlines managed to work out cost saving methods without giving or asking for concessions. Why are we even talking about it? Savvy?
We know you are going to green slip when we are on the street. Fine. It's already happening with the first round of folks on UNA. We don't want you to pork away what we have right now in the PWA. It's really that simple.
3 other airlines managed to work out cost saving methods without giving or asking for concessions. Why are we even talking about it? Savvy?
Our goal from the beginning has been to avoid furloughs, and that’s what we’re still striving for. The voluntary leaves and voluntary early retirements have helped immensely, particularly regarding our needs in the fall; however, we’re not yet staffed as we need to be.
So, will we furlough? That’s not a question I can answer yet. We believe there is a better way to do this, and we would rather not revert to the typical industry playbook of laying people off. We are doing all we can to mitigate and hopefully eliminate the need to furlough, but to accomplish our goal, we are going to need some help. As such, we look forward to partnering closely with APA on solutions. It will not be easy, but I remain hopeful that we will be able to get through this crisis without the need for furlough – together. I fully understand how important this is, and I commit to letting you all know as soon as a decision has been made.
Letter to AA pilots.
07-02-2020 | 01:40 PM
#114
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 172
Something was given to offset carrying more pilots, we just don’t know what it was yet. Someone upthread (or maybe in another thread) mentioned one of their management peeps said publicly they secured concessions in exchange for no furloughs. Obviously that could be extreme management-speak but ALPA agreed to changes to save jobs. Maybe JB just set the market regarding furlough protection. Let’s wait and see how they did it.
07-02-2020 | 01:42 PM
#115
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Joined: Feb 2008
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There has never been a negotiated ALV reduction in a attempt to prevent furloughs at Delta. What past practice are you referring to when you state it’s not effective? How can it not be effective when you reduce the allowed hours each pilot can fly? Not to mention you negotiate furlough restriction into any ALV reduction so it’s codified.
07-02-2020 | 02:01 PM
#116
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,429
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True but they are not dissimilar especially given the amount of pilots currently on reserve. To them ALV-2 is guarantee so the relationship is direct and proportional. Agree on the second point.
07-02-2020 | 02:28 PM
#117
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 725
Likes: 1
But at JB it is dissimilar, all the more reason not to view any JB LOA from a DL CBA perspective. RSVs at JetBlue have a guarantee of 75, regardless of the ALV for lineholders.
07-02-2020 | 02:36 PM
#118
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 172
Perhaps it’s not getting through my thick skull (probably due to the hat) but I thought the JB consensus was that monthly guarantees were not reduced in this agreement. For a large portion of us double-breasted folks, ALV directly determines monthly guarantee....
07-02-2020 | 02:39 PM
#119
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 369
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From: 320B
I still don’t really see anyone arguing that ALV reduction is, on its own, a concession. It quite literally is a management concession to keep significantly more pilots on property than they need to. What I see a TON of is an assumption that ALV reductions are only the first step down the long road of “gutting the contract”.
I think I’ve read all the same updates everyone else has, and I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe contract gutting is what DL desires. Point me to where our MEC has said that’s what is at stake please. Anything else is mind-reading and speculation.
The idea that something vaguely similar to this situation happened 20 years ago, therefore it accurately predicts future events, is a logical fallacy.
I think I’ve read all the same updates everyone else has, and I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe contract gutting is what DL desires. Point me to where our MEC has said that’s what is at stake please. Anything else is mind-reading and speculation.
The idea that something vaguely similar to this situation happened 20 years ago, therefore it accurately predicts future events, is a logical fallacy.
07-02-2020 | 02:44 PM
#120
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,906
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From: Here and there
I still don’t really see anyone arguing that ALV reduction is, on its own, a concession. It quite literally is a management concession to keep significantly more pilots on property than they need to. What I see a TON of is an assumption that ALV reductions are only the first step down the long road of “gutting the contract”.
I think I’ve read all the same updates everyone else has, and I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe contract gutting is what DL desires. Point me to where our MEC has said that’s what is at stake please. Anything else is mind-reading and speculation.
The idea that something vaguely similar to this situation happened 20 years ago, therefore it accurately predicts future events, is a logical fallacy.
I think I’ve read all the same updates everyone else has, and I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe contract gutting is what DL desires. Point me to where our MEC has said that’s what is at stake please. Anything else is mind-reading and speculation.
The idea that something vaguely similar to this situation happened 20 years ago, therefore it accurately predicts future events, is a logical fallacy.
Laughter’s memo on Friday sent out after the VEOP LOA was agreed to stated the company was willing to work with ALPA for a “comprehensive agreement” in exchange for a 24-month no furlough “commitment.”
Those are the words used so take them how you will.
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