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Old 07-01-2020 | 05:43 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by RAH RAH REE
That's BS it's beyond their control. They have CHOSEN to not go after certain types of passengers or destinations. They have chosen to stick to this ridiculous 60% load factor to appease noon existent business travelers. They have chosen to have fewer parked RJs than mainline aircraft.
oh trust me, you are preaching to the choir.
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Old 07-01-2020 | 05:57 PM
  #12  
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I'd say with the way they are with holding the QCQ training from people. They won't give us the furlough pay, it would be bad optics and all...
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Old 07-01-2020 | 06:41 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by CX500T
I'm wondering if they are going to claim Force Majeure and not pay furlough pay, and make ALPA duke it out in court over it.
If they do claim FM, then I sincerely hope that ALPA does duke it out in court with them. Is it an unforeseen hardship? Sure, but they also passed the bulk of that burden (at least for payroll) onto the American tax payer via the Cares Act. It becomes harder to claim an undue hardship/burden on payroll when others have been footing the bill for the past 6-months.

Plus, if they’re willing to pay retirees 75% pay at the highest paying rates for 3-years, it seems the least they can do is honor the PWA and pay outgoing FOs 2-3 months of pay (65 hours) at the lowest pay rate (717B). And I’m not throwing shade at the VEOP and retirees, I think it’s a good deal and I’m happy for those able to take it. It is a criticism of management if they fail to provide furlough pay in accordance with the PWA.
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Old 07-01-2020 | 07:22 PM
  #14  
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I can't remember off the top of my head, but FM only applies to a couple very specific things in the PWA, it's not a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card.

And if Management tried to get out of paying Furlough Pay as outlined in the PWA, ALPA would grieve it and win in a heartbeat. Of all the things to worry about, I really don't think this is on the list. Hopefully, it's all a moot point.
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Old 07-02-2020 | 03:28 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by FangsF15
I can't remember off the top of my head, but FM only applies to a couple very specific things in the PWA, it's not a blanket get-out-of-jail-free card.

And if Management tried to get out of paying Furlough Pay as outlined in the PWA, ALPA would grieve it and win in a heartbeat. Of all the things to worry about, I really don't think this is on the list. Hopefully, it's all a moot point.
and furlough is one of them...that being said, i still think ALPA would win this one.
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Old 07-02-2020 | 03:32 AM
  #16  
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Is is possible that the letter was worded to make it clear that Delta didn’t really want to furlough, but forces beyond their control were forcing them to. You know, trying to soften the blow?
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Old 07-02-2020 | 03:36 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by tunes
and furlough is one of them...that being said, i still think ALPA would win this one.
Someone please copy and paste the exact force majeure language because it sounds like most people here haven’t read it, at least not recently.
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Old 07-02-2020 | 03:37 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by waldo135
Is is possible that the letter was worded to make it clear that Delta didn’t really want to furlough, but forces beyond their control were forcing them to. You know, trying to soften the blow?
no. they are using it because they are trying to use FM, it's worded for PWA 21.B.9
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Old 07-02-2020 | 03:55 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Gspeed
Someone please copy and paste the exact force majeure language because it sounds like most people here haven’t read it, at least not recently.
Using the language "a circumstance over which the Company does not have control" encompasses a force majeure. A force majeure clause, by legal definition, is a clause excusing non-performance due to circumstances beyond the control of the parties.

​​​​​​21.B.9.a, 1.I.1 and 1.I.2 are some relevant ones.
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Old 07-02-2020 | 05:19 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by tunes
and furlough is one of them...that being said, i still think ALPA would win this one.
Furlough, yes. Furlough pay, no. Though they can pay as little as 1 month pay, which I would expect them to do.
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