Scoop

[QUOTE=boog123;3136940]
Yes how long? I think this topic deserves its own thread - stay tuned. As for both tribes:

This is a disaster and will be the beginning of the end of all of our PWAs.

This is awesome and soon the unicorns will be dancing in the streets.

I say it is too early to pass judgment on this deal or any other COVID deal. No one knows how this will turnout, so lets just see what happens.

Scoop

mikea72580

Wow. Exactly what was feared. A close to 50/50 split. UAL succeeded in splitting the pilot group into age groupings. I would expect this to pay dividends for management in future Sec 6 negotiations. They now have a proven strategy and a willing partner in the UAL MEC, to produce agreements that target 50% + 1. Not good for pattern bargaining, but especially bad for the UAL pilots. Agreements that result in <70% FOR are a setback for collective bargaining.

Gone Flying

it does protect furloughs for another 8 months. The earliest they can furlough is June 1 unless they cancel this agreement. The agreement also is cancelled if they furlough more than 2000. As of this morning, 2850 pilots were to be furloughed by the end i of November.

Denny Crane

Does it have an opt out clause like our LOA 20-03?

Denny

WhiskeyDelta

AFAIK, the only opt out is if CARES is extended or otherwise renewed. In that case, I’ve read the United pilots get to keep the gains but the ALV cuts get eliminated.

Gone Flying

it has termination triggers. If they furlough before June 1 or furlough more than 2000 pilots anytime after June 1, if they add seats back to RJs*, or block hours increase to certain thresholds but I do not believe the union can just decide to pull it down like our LOA. It does have a 24 month expiration date, unlike our LOA

* part of this deal was UAL still had to take the 6 seats out of 76 seat RJs, even though they are not furloughing at the moment.

The block hour metric is not an all or nothing, there are 8 brackets based on % of 2019 block hours. Everyone is back to 70 hours if that month has >70% of same month 2019 block hours

EDITED

Drum

No. they have metrics, triggers and other stuff, but no straight pull down like our LOA.

I just got the TA (29 pages of it) emailed to me from one of my bros at UAL. Of the 11 I know there, all voted NO. The MPG stuff apparently stays + 17 months regardless. UAL can still furlough. To me it looks like the pilot group has paid Kirby to fix his training problem. I'm still reading thru it. If flying returns strong for summer they'll probably be alright. If it doesn't I think they are going to see more than 2,007 furloughs come 1 June 2021. The TA is a gamble, so we'll see how it plays out. I'm also trying to figure out if this will actually delay furlough returns. Language seems to indicate that could happen based on their MPG stuff.

If you have a friend at UAL, ask them to send it to you. I'd be interested to hear your take on it. I was sworn to keep my copy - my copy. So gonna honor that.

1Bob

Almost busted out laughing.

There maybe arguments to be made on some negotiated, concessionary agreement with management, but only someone who's naiveté wasn't already shredded, bludgeoned, burned at the stake by LOA #46 might try to argue that.

Buck Rogers

All 11 of your bros" voted NO, but it passes by about 6 to 4? Curious what their demgraphics were. Which 1/3 were they in? I suspect someone was not quite truthful in their recollection of their vote.

Seen this several times at Delta over the years.

PilotBases

I remember at another carrier hearing NO loud and often in regards to a LOA. You couldn’t find a yes voter, online polls were massively negative. It passed 85%. I expected the UAL deal to pass ~60/40. The scope reductions in it aren’t bad.