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Quote:

Originally Posted by PSFT (Post 3131689)

I’ve heard the gov is working a deal so employee contracts can’t be touched in bankruptcy? I’m probably wrong but hope that’s true. I don’t know much of anything.

It’s a current call to action on ALPA for it. I think it is getting thrown under the radar because of CARES 2 but ALPA has been trying to get this bill passed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 3131679)

I wasn't around for bankruptcy. Does this "starting point" concept accurately reflect how a BK judge actually thinks and behaves? It's a commonly repeated theme... should we enter BK court, we want to do it from the highest water mark possible. But I honestly don't get it. In BK, operating costs and debts exceed revenue, so the company is attempting to restructure to get projected costs and debt obligations below projected revenue, right? Doesn't a judge just validate if a proposed (or executed) departure from the existing PWA is necessary... not that it is or isn't above or below some percentage value?

If I'm cutting my family's budget to balance cash flow, I don't honestly care what I used to spend. I need to get down to X, no matter what Y USED to be.

What am I missing? Is the consensus from last time that had the union NOT agreed to a 32% pay cut before BK, the end state 40+% cut wouldn't have been so big? Or is the desire to maximize income before it eventually falls per the BK judge's decree?

Yes to both - this is the consensus. Who knows since we can not go back and try an alternate path but that is the concensus. It is lot easier for a labor judge to reduce compensation by 10% than 40%.

There is also a school of thought that says better to fight and lose XX then give away XX - when you are trying to recapture XX. Like I said all of this is opinion but in any case we (DALPA) were played like a fiddle in BK.

Scoop

Has there been any released costing put out by the union on ALV reduction vs. SILs? I came up with a completely different answer than I was expecting doing napkin math with my buddy.

I'm guessing Cares II is dead with the RBG death. All attention will be diverted to the Supreme Court from the impending doom of the economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSFT (Post 3131689)

I’ve heard the gov is working a deal so employee contracts can’t be touched in bankruptcy? I’m probably wrong but hope that’s true. I don’t know much of anything.

lol, NEVER gonna happen

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3131677)

I agree with most of what your posting. What I dispute is the company wants a widebody only ALV reduction. Yes they want a targeted ALV. That’s what gives them the ability to adjust flying rapidly. ALV‘S would all be low this winter. That’s the point of the whole thing.

I don’t recall that anyone has said the company wants a widebody only ALV reduction. What they have said is widebodies are the prime target for reduction in the targeted plan over narrow bodies.

Denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavService (Post 3131742)

I'm guessing Cares II is dead with the RBG death. All attention will be diverted to the Supreme Court from the impending doom of the economy.

Agree. Even though they technically have until January, their priorities will be:

1) re-election
2) pass a CR
3) confirm a SC justice
4) recess/vacation
5)...
6)...
7) CARES? What’s that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 3131679)

I wasn't around for bankruptcy. Does this "starting point" concept accurately reflect how a BK judge actually thinks and behaves? It's a commonly repeated theme... should we enter BK court, we want to do it from the highest water mark possible. But I honestly don't get it. In BK, operating costs and debts exceed revenue, so the company is attempting to restructure to get projected costs and debt obligations below projected revenue, right? Doesn't a judge just validate if a proposed (or executed) departure from the existing PWA is necessary... not that it is or isn't above or below some percentage value?

If I'm cutting my family's budget to balance cash flow, I don't honestly care what I used to spend. I need to get down to X, no matter what Y USED to be.

What am I missing? Is the consensus from last time that had the union NOT agreed to a 32% pay cut before BK, the end state 40+% cut wouldn't have been so big? Or is the desire to maximize income before it eventually falls per the BK judge's decree?

You are basically correct. The other thing not mentioned is that a imposed contract is extremely rare. A negotiated agreement is almost always reached before the judge rules. The judge can however exert a lot of influence in those negotiations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 3131709)

i was not here during the last round of BKs but I thought united took a 48% cut in BK( and another cut before they exited BK). From my understanding of BK law, the company will cut to cost goals, regardless of where the starting point was. Anecdotally, UA and DL has similar contracts pre 9/11 and both ended up in similar places after BK contractually( I think UAL might even have been worse) , DL tried with changing the contract before BK, UA did not

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 3131702)

So does the death of RGB and the ensuing political fight greatly reduce the chances of CARES 2? Not looking to discuss the Supreme Court issues, just the effects on both sides agreeing to anything right now.

I think they are separate issues, since the House doesn't have any say in the new SC justice.

I think the meeting at the WH last week with the airline CEOs was more of an indication that the WH wants the airlines to have money -which is good news for us - but the CARES 2 seems wrapped up more in the other issues that the House, the Senate and the WH are discussing (and can't reach an agreement on). The positive is that on Oct 1st, the election is 34 days away. It's not good optics for several airlines to collectively furlough tens of thousands of people (which live in every state) that close to an election.