commuting to reserve for most people is not “chosen” given the last few months. If they are junior, they will not be able to hold ULC most likely. All verified with my reps. A lot of discussion going on with them about this one point. Yea, a concession.

[QUOTE=beis77;3134837]If you’re talking about the voluntary LOA then I respectfully disagree. It’s not great, but it’s completely voluntary. Social media isn’t a great barometer. IMHO if it goes to MEMRAT then it passes by at least 2/3rds.

If you’re talking about the company’s proposal to save all furloughs then I’m inclined to agree. With 90% of those polled saying “no concessions”, it would have to be a great deal to even make it to MEMRAT, let alone pass. I’m doubtful that proposal will even make it to MEMRAT. I hope I’m wrong.[/QUOTE

hope you are right. Barring a cares act 2 , if the numbers don’t add up we will furlough. My opinion is the 220 saved is for the holiday season ( to keep the A220 flying).
I believe every LOA needs to go to memrat. Let us decide not just the few decide our fate.
I am not in favor of changing our contract for the worst. I know how it feels to get the F letter.

If reduced regular lines are offered they have to assign them per the power point, no cherry picking or SIL type bait and switch. The volume or lack of availability will show the companies intent for all these measures. IMHO ULC would be a huge winner as well as MBL with vacation months.

How would that differ from SIL’s being offered?

I choose to commute, however I am senior enough to choose not to be on reserve. Right now, some months it is not an option due to the current situation for most.

now adjust the current rates for inflation since 2005. They really haven’t risen much.

Originally Posted by connollc View Post

I wasn't here when it happened, but in a past downturn did not the pilots give 30+% in pay cuts only to have the company file BK anyway and take more? What would you say about that in the context of “holding strong?”

What you’re saying is technically true, but let’s keep it in perspective. OTH is there value (morally or otherwise) in negotiating something that could mitigate furloughs. That is what we as a group will need to answer.

EDIT: the BK judge “took more”




You guys are both pretty close:

LOA 46 Effective 01 December 2004 Signed by John Malone/Gerald Grinstein

DAL Pilots take a voluntary 32% paycut to avoid BK (do it once do it right)

The company rolls into BK anyway - IMHO just as planned all along.

The company takes us to court and files an 1113 motion to basically throw out what remained of our already gutted contract. Remember we had just jointly agreed to this contract to avoid BK.

LOA 51 Effective 01 June 2006 SIgned by Lee Moak/Gerald Grinstein-

DAL Pilots take an additional voluntary 14% paycut to preserve as much of our contract as possible. We did actually preserve a bare minimum of work rules duty rigs but overall it was ugly.


Some will say LOA 51 was foolish and we should have fought. Others will say we preserved some of our work rules so it was the wise move. I was still livid that we were duped on LOA 46 and voted against LOA 51 - it was the only time in over 20 years that I voted in the minority.

The lesson here is that in volatile times all bets are off. We are in an unprecedented revenue reduction environment that is easily subject to DAL managements claim of "Things Changed." Yes, we should work with management for a furlough mitigation win-win, but lets perhaps go in with a healthy dose of skepticism and a little less gullibility. If the company decides its in their best interest to furlough - they will furlough.

Scoop

The person who usually gets 2-3 SC will now have presumably more SC from the ULCs, but now gets to offload those SC to a few pilots who were previously in the furlough bucket and now active junior to them.

If you’re a junior A, yes your life will get worse. How many hours have you actually flown the last 6 month?

By that rationale, furloughs are a “huge give” also. That same person will be doing 5-6 SC when 1941 hit the streets and the optimizer has its way with the rest of the group. The company is going to cut to the bone, high utilization for those sticking around. At least this LOA gives people choices, saves jobs and improves QOL for many.

Folks can’t have it both ways. The company is about done paying people 72-hours for min work. We can either help to manage it ourselves by volunteering to work less/more based on personal preference, or else the company will unilaterally manage it for us (people sticking around will be working a lot with little flexibility, furloughs will be working none)...

A more realistic scenario. Drive into the Porsche dealership where you purchased your last 4 Porsche’s and see the new 911S with a sticker of $130,000. They say that due to demand, they will now charge $30,000 over sticker or $160,000. You offer them the sticker and they say you are nuts and tell you to leave the store immediately.