Originally Posted by PSFT (Post 3134724)

And screw over the furlough pilots... nice.

Originally Posted by jmcharles (Post 3134667)

Ed happens to be the CEO of a multi-national organization. He’s not stupid. I think it’s crazy to think Ed sits up there hemming and hawing over the pilot group. He and the other 4th floor folks have a number, and they will get it. They don’t want to furlough, that is obvious. I understand if we are furloughed it is because the company does it and no one else. I get that. But they’ve made it clear they’re not keeping pilots on board to get paid to do nothing. And I agree.

Originally Posted by Planetrain (Post 3134748)

I know! We can agree to everything on the LOA and then Dec 1 give our notice of 30-days to pull everything down just like virtual base. That’ll show ‘em. Hoorah team no! /endsarcasm

Alpa’s halo isn’t as polished as some think it is.

Originally Posted by Fredturbo (Post 3134742)

blame the province of wuhan.

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3134750)

If delta had not offered any solutions this would be accurate. If we just choose not to engage management to prove a point ALPA is 100% screwing over jr Delta pilots. I’m not saying we have to come to an agreement, but to not even try just out of spite; that would be on APLA’a shoulders

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 3134686)

There are plenty of valid reasons not to trust our management team:

I don't trust them because I was told "Do it once do it right" and voted for a 32% paycut to avoid BK. The company knew we were going into BK and misled us. As a reward for our magnanimous behavior The company then took us to court for further cuts.

I don't trust them because they made almost zero effort to negotiate in good faith last fall.

I don't trust them because they resorted to public shaming of the Pilot group via the media last spring.

I don't trust them because after benefiting from the April re-bid they reneged. While within the letter of their agreement, it was clearly not within the Spirit of the agreement.

I don't trust them because they continually violate Scope when it is in their best interest.

Is DALPA perfect? Far from it, and union Politics definitely plays into all of this. It would be great if we could reach a win-win with the company that would help the furloughs. Do not however fool yourself one bit - the company is unsure of furloughs because no one knows this ends and how quick the recovery would be - but if it would benefit the companies bottom line we would furlough in a heartbeat. I do not begrudge the company for this at all - if we are flying at a 9000 pilot required level it would be foolish to carry addiitonal Pilots for any extended time.

Bottom line - If we do not furlough it will be because it benefits the company. I hope we can come to a win-win deal with the company but if we don't the blame primarily rests with our management. This distrust of management is a learned behavior, the company through their actions has lost the trust of the Pilots.

Scoop

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 3134723)

I disagree. ALPA needs to do nothing just like the company did to us in 2019.

Originally Posted by ppping (Post 3134754)

Read the Negotiators Notepad from July 23rd. Alpa has been trying to save Delta jobs for awhile. After all more pilots employed is more dues money, TIC kind of. We need to have a contract to come back to when this is all over with.

Originally Posted by Buck Rogers (Post 3134690)

Is it possible you are mistaken re the "universally"? When I see the vote at UAL I will have more data instead of an emotional argument. If they turn down their LOA 90-10, I will admit that you handicapped the will of the Delta pilot group successfully. If their LOA passes then let's revisit this and what "universally" means. Deal?

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3134734)

when did APLA and Delta exchange openers? How soon after that did COVID happen? Our contract became amendable on 1/1/2020 and by the end of February the economy was in free fall. Not gonna fault the company on that one. Had it been 1,2, or 3 years that might have merit but the contract had just become amendable when all this started.

Not to mention our opening proposal was a huge dollar amount, it was going to take some time to negotiate an agreement based on what ALPA has put out from our opener

Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3134765)

I don’t blame DAPLA if a deal is not reached, I would blame them if they refused to even negotiate to prove a point