Ed happens to be the CEO of a multi-national organization. He’s not stupid. I think it’s crazy to think Ed sits up there hemming and hawing over the pilot group. He and the other 4th floor folks have a number, and they will get it. They don’t want to furlough, that is obvious. I understand if we are furloughed it is because the company does it and no one else. I get that. But they’ve made it clear they’re not keeping pilots on board to get paid to do nothing. And I agree.

while I can agree with you in principle, I think this management team has done quite a bit of damage to pilots willingness to work together. While I really hope a deal does come through, it needs to be a deal that offers something to the pilot group other than no furloughs to pass MEMRAT. Given the number of EOs and the voluntary measures the hours cuts would probably not have to be that drastic. An 7-8 hour cut to the bottom or our TLV of 75 hours would probably generate more savings than furloughing due to the fact that those in the furlough range are much cheaper employees. (rumor is AA only asked for 8 hr reduction to save all 1605 furloughs there)
I’m sure many here would like to see the optimizer reigned in, give us better trip mixes (more day turns in bases with lots who live locally, more commutable 3-5 day trips in bases like NYC) , and have better DHD accommodations. Hopefully both sides can be reasonable, but I don’t expect ALPA to play ball if DL is going to try to turn a negotiation into a demand list.

I believe folks more experienced than me that see the union preventing behind some of this. That surely is at play. I just mean that the pilot group is but one part of this organization. You don’t look at what the other groups are doing right now, and then look at us, and see a difference? The only way “no concessions” ends is in furloughs when crises happen. Why? Why isn’t there a third way?

Thanks. Some good points.

Senator McCarthy was right about communists in the State Department, but it was how he went about dealing with it that made him notorious even today...

So I ask you, why do YOU think the pilot group went almost universally from “work less, but not for less” to FPTTLD overnight?

Agreed.

#240SUX

There are plenty of valid reasons not to trust our management team:

I don't trust them because I was told "Do it once do it right" and voted for a 32% paycut to avoid BK. The company knew we were going into BK and misled us. As a reward for our magnanimous behavior The company then took us to court for further cuts.

I don't trust them because they made almost zero effort to negotiate in good faith last fall.

I don't trust them because they resorted to public shaming of the Pilot group via the media last spring.

I don't trust them because after benefiting from the April re-bid they reneged. While within the letter of their agreement, it was clearly not within the Spirit of the agreement.

I don't trust them because they continually violate Scope when it is in their best interest.

Is DALPA perfect? Far from it, and union Politics definitely plays into all of this. It would be great if we could reach a win-win with the company that would help the furloughs. Do not however fool yourself one bit - the company is unsure of furloughs because no one knows this ends and how quick the recovery would be - but if it would benefit the companies bottom line we would furlough in a heartbeat. I do not begrudge the company for this at all - if we are flying at a 9000 pilot required level it would be foolish to carry addiitonal Pilots for any extended time.

Bottom line - If we do not furlough it will be because it benefits the company. I hope we can come to a win-win deal with the company but if we don't the blame primarily rests with our management. This distrust of management is a learned behavior, the company through their actions has lost the trust of the Pilots.

Scoop

^^^100000%^^^

Is it possible you are mistaken re the "universally"? When I see the vote at UAL I will have more data instead of an emotional argument. If they turn down their LOA 90-10, I will admit that you handicapped the will of the Delta pilot group successfully. If their LOA passes then let's revisit this and what "universally" means. Deal?

I think you are right that there are many pilots still willing to see the language in a deal and weigh it (and their trust in management) to decide what they think about it. I don’t think there are as many “hard no’s no matter what” as some would have you believe.