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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   1721 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/131103-1721.html)

Crown 09-18-2020 05:40 AM
Originally Posted by Fredturbo (Post 3131193)
that’s where you are wrong. The majority of pilots don’t stay home when not working. They have other hobbies which keep them active. Personally, I like to hit the slopes in the winter and go spelunking with my cats the rest of the year.
is that second one a metaphor for something else?

TED74 09-18-2020 05:40 AM
Originally Posted by Corndog (Post 3131190)
It’s surprising to me that 90% of polled pilots say that staying home with pay and letting other people do the work Is the only solution they will be a part of.
Where did you get that idea? I'd be surprised too, but that's not what 90% of anyone said. Makes an interesting straw man argument if you're into that kind of rhetoric, though. Sometimes I'm shocked how many folks don't think a little deeper.

I am part of the 90% of folks who rejected the company's plan for targeted, temporary ALV reductions that they wanted to implement without exhausting all voluntary measures and be creative with solutions to avoid furloughs. Our CEO publicly stated his intent to do both.

You'll notice that since their offer was made, negotiations have seemingly led to a much more pilot-friendly agreement we'll get to see soon. I thank the 90% of polled pilots who knew better than to accept a crappy deal.

Fredturbo 09-18-2020 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by StartngOvr (Post 3131156)
So, the JL memo states “we in good faith committed to reduce the number of pilots at risk of furlough by 220”. There’s no other qualifier or context. Clearly the intended message conveyed is more “permanent” furlough protection. The ALPA comm stated this number is only protected through January.

Somebody is lying. Either JL is lying by omission, or ALPA by overtly stating false information. In this case, I’m inclined to believe ALPA’s version of the truth. Company is simply offering three more months for a handful of pilots. Really it’s just to help themselves with their training crunch and being able to staff the A220 through the holidays. Once they got what they needed out of these guys they will cut them loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
“We planned to execute one hostage per hour, however after negotiations, we have decided in good faith to only execute one hostage every other hour.”

sailingfun 09-18-2020 05:46 AM
Originally Posted by theUpsideDown (Post 3131191)
And it is, however, the company wants to use that as a way to screw around with schedules. As with most things, it could be done simply, but the company won't agree to exactly what you're looking for. Remember contract negotiations are complex.
Can you explain the screw around with schedules part?

Flying Monkey 09-18-2020 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by Corndog (Post 3131190)
I’m shocked more pilots don’t have a problem with it also. It’s surprising to me that 90% of polled pilots say that staying home with pay and letting other people do the work Is the only solution they will be a part of. An ALV cut isn’t a rate cut. To me, working 15% less for 15% less seems like an honorable and ethical solution to save jobs
Ethics and logic.....interesting.

I agree, btw.

Scoop 09-18-2020 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by Corndog (Post 3131190)
I’m shocked more pilots don’t have a problem with it also. It’s surprising to me that 90% of polled pilots say that staying home with pay and letting other people do the work Is the only solution they will be a part of. An ALV cut isn’t a rate cut. To me, working 15% less for 15% less seems like an honorable and ethical solution to save jobs
I agree 100% it is an honorable solution. It was honorable to take a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK. How did that work out? Pilot don't trust management. This is learned behavior. We lived it.

The problem isn't unethical Pilots the problem is unethical management. No Pilot in their right mind who has been through this before and burned wants to be burned again.

Like I have said before and will repeat ad nauseam - If we had a Herb Kelleher type CEO, I would be all over it.

Scoop

tunes 09-18-2020 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by Corndog (Post 3131190)
I’m shocked more pilots don’t have a problem with it also. It’s surprising to me that 90% of polled pilots say that staying home with pay and letting other people do the work Is the only solution they will be a part of. An ALV cut isn’t a rate cut. To me, working 15% less for 15% less seems like an honorable and ethical solution to save jobs
the company wanted to reduce the ALV by 15%, which also reduced the reserve guarantee...but they wanted the same number of on call days.

iaflyer 09-18-2020 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by tunes (Post 3131209)
the company wanted to reduce the ALV by 15%, which also reduced the reserve guarantee...but they wanted the same number of on call days.
Exactly. So on the wide bodies where either ALL of the pilots are on reserve (which happened this summer) or most - it's a 15% pay cut while on-call the same number of days. For most of the widebody pilots.

sailingfun 09-18-2020 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by tunes (Post 3131209)
the company wanted to reduce the ALV by 15%, which also reduced the reserve guarantee...but they wanted the same number of on call days.
Do you have a reference to this?

crewdawg 09-18-2020 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by Corndog (Post 3131190)
I’m shocked more pilots don’t have a problem with it also. It’s surprising to me that 90% of polled pilots say that staying home with pay and letting other people do the work Is the only solution they will be a part of. An ALV cut isn’t a rate cut. To me, working 15% less for 15% less seems like an honorable and ethical solution to save jobs
Some guys just don't want to lose that pay, even if it means letting other not work and get paid, while they do it. Delta definitely sits on a high horse wrt tlo some of this stuff...which is why they have the views that they do wrt mloa.

As mentioned above, the reserves will be working the same amount of days for 15% less, so I'm not sure about the "working less, not working for less..."


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