Prepare Yourselves... 2021 AEs
09-22-2021, 10:29 AM
#3231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Scoop
I am not saying it was benevolent - I actually think the company goes out of its way not to be benevolent to us. Very helpful in keeping the FA union drive in check.
You use the 10am start time on day 1 - what about the noon start, 1500, the guy who gets the 2200 start.
I agree the company did not do it for the Pilots.
You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that the company could always do this and has been doing it for years.
Scoop
You use the 10am start time on day 1 - what about the noon start, 1500, the guy who gets the 2200 start.
I agree the company did not do it for the Pilots.
You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that the company could always do this and has been doing it for years.
Scoop
09-22-2021, 10:30 AM
#3232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by nene
Herkflyr,
I feel your pain.....but I wouldn't add lowering the short call window to 9hrs as just a nice thing the company did. I think they looked at the data and realized the last 3 hours of a short call were never being used due to crew day constraints and it was more valuable to the company to release that pilot three hours early consistently and start their rest to be used the following day quicker. It just happens to make standing SC easier for the pilots, it also happens to make you more useful to the company in the aggregate.
I feel your pain.....but I wouldn't add lowering the short call window to 9hrs as just a nice thing the company did. I think they looked at the data and realized the last 3 hours of a short call were never being used due to crew day constraints and it was more valuable to the company to release that pilot three hours early consistently and start their rest to be used the following day quicker. It just happens to make standing SC easier for the pilots, it also happens to make you more useful to the company in the aggregate.
This is the real reason. They made this change for efficiency. You have very limited use after 9 hours of short call. It’s better to throw you back into long call and have you 3 hours earlier to use the next day.
I am not complaining about it. I like a shorter SC window, but this wasn’t the company trying to improve my quality of life.
09-22-2021, 11:16 AM
#3233
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,879
Originally Posted by notEnuf
My experience, and I can only offer my own, has been 10am day one every time because they can't do it earlier. As for the prior practice of release at 9, yes they could do it on an individual basis but this made it automatic. This in turn freed up schedulers and additional pilot availability during the morning when coverage is more critical. It was a policy shift for efficiency and nothing more.
You also say "yes they could do it on an individual basis..." Which in my experience was basically whenever they needed me in less than 12 hours. In LAX I would start a morning SC and be released to get 12 hours of rest prior to a red eye assignment. It happened quite a bit. Do you hear anyone pushing for a return to 12 hours? I don't.
Anyhow - we beat this to death. Can we at least agree that although the company did it to benefit themselves we also gain? A rare win-win?
Scoop
09-22-2021, 01:04 PM
#3234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: 757/767
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by notEnuf
My experience, and I can only offer my own, has been 10am day one every time because they can't do it earlier. As for the prior practice of release at 9, yes they could do it on an individual basis but this made it automatic. This in turn freed up schedulers and additional pilot availability during the morning when coverage is more critical. It was a policy shift for efficiency and nothing more.
09-22-2021, 04:10 PM
#3235
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Scoop
We are talking past each other. I agree the company did it to benefit the company - my point is that it also benefits us. You keep referring to the 10AM start on day 1 but remember plenty of guys start SCs at all hours of the day.
You also say "yes they could do it on an individual basis..." Which in my experience was basically whenever they needed me in less than 12 hours. In LAX I would start a morning SC and be released to get 12 hours of rest prior to a red eye assignment. It happened quite a bit. Do you hear anyone pushing for a return to 12 hours? I don't.
Anyhow - we beat this to death. Can we at least agree that although the company did it to benefit themselves we also gain? A rare win-win?
Scoop
You also say "yes they could do it on an individual basis..." Which in my experience was basically whenever they needed me in less than 12 hours. In LAX I would start a morning SC and be released to get 12 hours of rest prior to a red eye assignment. It happened quite a bit. Do you hear anyone pushing for a return to 12 hours? I don't.
Anyhow - we beat this to death. Can we at least agree that although the company did it to benefit themselves we also gain? A rare win-win?
Scoop
This all started when it was used to describe a rare "good" given without regards for why. That's where my benevolence comment came from. They never have and never will give freebies, we are paying for it in increased productivity and usability. Herk made the comment "just to be nice" that could easily be miss read as goodwill on the part of the company and I felt it needed pushback. Enuf said.
09-22-2021, 04:39 PM
#3236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,136
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Very true and at the moment staffing is a mess. That being said with the dynamics in the modern airline industry your never going to completely fix staffing. There are always going to be categories that are short as marketing adjusts to the latest world events, economic realities, wars ect…
The last two years have had more than the normal amount of events.
The last two years have had more than the normal amount of events.
Don't think that the company ever wants to see GS as a "routine" way to staff the airline. Something pilots hired in the past 2-3 years probably need to remind themselves of.
09-22-2021, 06:22 PM
#3237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,561
Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux
Went years without seeing a GS when I was hired. Then it was nuts on a certain fleet/position for a year. Then nothing for a few more years.
Don't think that the company ever wants to see GS as a "routine" way to staff the airline. Something pilots hired in the past 2-3 years probably need to remind themselves of.
Don't think that the company ever wants to see GS as a "routine" way to staff the airline. Something pilots hired in the past 2-3 years probably need to remind themselves of.
09-23-2021, 05:47 AM
#3238
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,568
Originally Posted by Myfingershurt
Ive been here for six years. And while it’s not a year round thing, i think the company most definitely uses green slips so it can staff the airline for winter flying and use green slips for the surge months. I’d say in the long run it saves many millions in payroll/benefits than hiring the appropriate number of pilots for those busy months. I’ve not seen a summer that hasn’t run at least a little “hot” since I’ve been here.
All of this.
09-23-2021, 05:55 AM
#3239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,771
Originally Posted by Myfingershurt
Ive been here for six years. And while it’s not a year round thing, i think the company most definitely uses green slips so it can staff the airline for winter flying and use green slips for the surge months. I’d say in the long run it saves many millions in payroll/benefits than hiring the appropriate number of pilots for those busy months. I’ve not seen a summer that hasn’t run at least a little “hot” since I’ve been here.
09-23-2021, 07:15 AM
#3240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,581
Originally Posted by nene
Consider though that your six years at Delta were some of the best years this industry has ever strung together, at least in recent history. Prior to the pandemic, the industry overall was on quite a string of successes, that wasn't always true in the past when everyone was wondering who/if any airlines were going to go BK or merge in the coming year. Hope we can be so lucky to have another 6yrs wondering if the company can hire fast enough to handle attrition/growth.
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