So answer the questions about your proposal. You accuse me of being hell bent on disagreeing, but I told you earlier it seemed a decent idea. I then asked about eligibility and how that would be determined and you ignored me. You’d rather argue with anyone who you think is disagreeing.

 

Sorry, healthy as the proverbial horse here. My belly isn't spilling out of my uniform. Not stressed in the least.

Never said you were NW. As far as I am concerned, your group did an even more egregious act with allowing retired pilots to come back to work while guys were on furlough. Congratulations for that one.

And I never used the cobra. I did the right thing and used my significant other's insurance. While watching other furloughs I knew ignore the union request to use other insurance means if able. They had other options available, but used the cobra so that they could get the cheaper cobra rate (in other words free).

And no misery here whatsoever. I actually enjoy seeing people like you expose yourself for who you are. Just like the tanksley group and their ilk. Negotiating capital for COLA for the frozen pensions and pbgc, while at the same time you collect the same DC rate as everybody else........ Please. This is just a further grab like their lawsuit. Like I asked you before: what about those pre 2004 you talked about that have neither frozen nor pbgc? You of course didn't respond to that.

 

I see where the DZs are coming from and do have some sympathy for them. I’d be willing to look at proposals to help but right now can’t see myself voting yes on targeted carve-outs.

However I think empathy is a two way street and there is a prevailing attitude that any suffering in the regionals at food stamp wages for a decade or more means jack because their blazer wasn’t double breasted at the time. This is despite the fact that the causal factors were similar for both parties. 9/11, major bankruptcies, and age 65 all combined to form a hurricane of bad news for the entire industry and when the RJ guys finally got here they heard this:

DZ: Hey newbie remember that hurricane of 2006?

RJ puke: Yes sir, it was a doozy. It blew down my house. Was a total loss.

DZ: Well I had some serious flood damage to my basement. What say you chip in and and help pay for it?

RJ puke: But I was caught in that same storm! I told
you I lost my whole house.

DZ: Were you a Delta pilot at the time the wind knocked it over?

RJ puke: Um no.

DZ: Then it doesn’t count! Now let’s start with the basement....

No wonder they’re a bit salty

 

I didn't answer the "who" because its divisive enough without first seeing if there us any justification. I was trying to keep it simply....not make it more complicated.

point if clarification.....I wasn't arguing, simply trying to correct the statements that people either intentionally took out of context or read too quickly and misunderstood...like I did for you and you acknowledged

 

Oh, here comes the parade of guilt. Oh no, you "sacrificed" a tiny bit of your $175k to make sure your union brethren on your street didn't go bankrupt paying medical bills. How magnanimous of you. And the "I had a B scale so you owe me" is tired too. You did it, hopefully, because it's frankly borderline immoral to have a B scale on property. You know what I'll never say to new guys in 20 years if we ever manage to pull in RJ scope? Oh, you need to agree with me that I need more money because I was very kind to you to get rid of RJs. I could have taken a huge pay bump but instead chose to give you a job.

 

Never mind ... not worth the time

 

You completely missed the point of my examples. The point is, we evaluate what is right and what wrong(perceptions) and adjust accordingly. The 2 items that we fixed were deemed to be wrong. The hotel issue is also wrong and will get fixed.

This whole thread was supposed to be a discussion on DZers and PBGC/frozen benefits....have they withstood the test of time? They came into existence un a time if extremis and the issue if right/wrong was never addressed because recouping pay was the first order of business for 12 years.

Suffice it to say...your whole summation of what you think I said is about 180 degrees out of what I was saying. I am sorry you misunderstood or I explained it poorly.

BTW......not specifically for you, but numerous times it's been said by posters...."and the money that DZers should have saved on their own". Money outside of the Delta retirements is personal and has nothing to do with union negotiated retirement plans. To do so is means testing and if applied on a broader sense(nationally) is going to devistate all pilots retirement plans.I dont think a "means test" is appropriate in this discussion. Whether I married rich, or blew my disposable income on bad investments is not germain to a discussion of Delta retirement plans. That topic is insular and should not be commingled with emotional issues like the majority of the posts have done.

Unfortunately instead of asking questions to clarify points, the majority is twisting comments, take them out of context in an attempt for a keyboard warrior win

G'day mates
Peace Out

 

Too much heartburn happening here over a unlikely hypothetical. What was left of the DZer voting power left with the VEOPs

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

Remember thinking the same thing discussing scope in 2012 in the ATL lounge.

 

C'mon - lighten up on the young vs old. Buck makes many good points and so do you. How about we agree to disagree.

As far as the PERP program - retired Pilots returning, yeah it sucked but the alternative was worse. So when you have two bad options isn't it better to choose the least bad? DAL had mismanaged its crew resources, as always, and we were between a rock and a hard place - there was no magical "tough guy" solution that we missed.

Like I said I am skeptical on carve out and am amused that Pilots among those making 250K + within 3 years are mocking a 20 year Pilot making 175K who just lost his planned for DB. I am 100% against bringing back the DB but lets not lose the ability to see things from others POV.

And for every Captain making 175K there were 5-15 year FOs making sub 100K (yours truly ) who are rapidly approaching retirement with some already retired.

Scoop