I actually support everything you just said. But I also am struggling to see the justification.

(My understanding)

A reroute only occurs when either a leg is flown that was not on the original rotation, or a leg that was on the the original rotation is not flown. Only after either of these things occur can the time at which they occurred be known. And since the time of the reroute can then be known, it can then be compared to the midnight changeover of REG/RES and vice versa.

I do not see in 23.L.8/9 the attachment you are describing about REG/RES status at the start of the rotation.

The distinction between L8/9 is still present because of the equally nebulous term "regular line day-off", which only appears twice in the PWA and is not defined in the same manner that X-days are. However a reroute that begins in RES status needs this phrase to continue to apply L9 when it crosses into REG days off. L8 excludes this distinction because a rerouted REG pilot finishing a trip on NOT a "regular line day-off" still gets paid if the reroute carried the trip beyond >4 hours from original scheduled release.

 

If you check the schedule at 2350, you are still a regular pilot and there is no "pre-release schedule check". At 0000 you become a reserve pilot and you have "pre-release schedule check" requirement that still needs to be satisfied, because you haven't been released yet.

So the way I see it, you don't have a "pre-release schedule check until" 0001, but you still have it.

 

RES is a an 18 hour callout, right?

12.G.8.a-c states:

" At that time, their schedule may show an assignment:a. of a rotation with a report that is at least 18 hours after their release.

b. to short call duty beginning no earlier than 18 hours after their release (see Section 23 S. 9. b. Exception).

c. of a rest period beginning as early as their release time.

The pilot is RES at release because that's what the 18 hours is based on.

RES = mandatory schedule check.

 

I have a weird one; RES in APR, REG in MAY. Reg trip starts on 2 May. I had in zero YS, but did have a reserve spillover preference in. Got called by a scheduler last night for a 3 day proffer starting 1May.

Showed on my schedule but no pay for the dropped trip. Spent almost 2 hours on with scheduling, supervisor kept arguing I wasn’t due pay because it was a YS. Asked for the sup’s name and was hung up on. During that whole period they covered the trip elsewhere and gave me back my original trip.

It’s not really a pay issue but what’s the next course of action? DART says not to submit scheduling stuff and STS requires a pilot assist pay case. Ideas?

 

Apparently even ALPA isn’t 100% certain on the block in before 0000 release after 0000 scenario. The reply to my STA inquiry:

“You're probably not going to find anything crystal clear about this, or at least I am unaware. But I would probably argue that the date of rotation for pay purposes (3F) you are a regular pilot and that's what the RPI says. So this is a regular rotation with no required schedule check, since the block-in is on the calendar day of the reg month seems to make more sense too. If there was a reroute that took you into the RES month or the actual block-in occurred in the RES month I may think otherwise. However, regardless, I'm sure depending on the exact scenario that occurs, it would have to be evaluated. i.e. I wouldn't go staking my position in a discipline case that a guy is putting his career on the line over that you had no obligation to do a schedule check and that's why you no-showed, yet you checked your schedule 100 times in Micrew but "didn't know about it, because that's not official, etc."

 

Yup that's weird. Hindsight, but in that scenario I might have just said "thanks, I'll take the proffer" and sort out the pay later if it was to my advantage. I would appear that they (incorrectly) took your objection as refusing the proffer. Not really the same as a missed slip though, more like a missed assignment. 23M7 maybe if they skipped you to another step of coverage? How did they subsequently assign the trip? Not sure how far you'll get with a pay inquiry.

Btw, STS REPORTS require a pilot assist case, but STS INQUIRIES do not. STS inquiries are basically the scheduling committee's version of a DART for general scheduling questions/concerns that don't necessitate deep research. I'd file the inquiry and ask if they think it's worth submitting a pay assist case (and subsequent STS report) for it. If nothing else, it gives ALPA another data point.

 

Well... I guess none of us were exactly wrong or right on this one. That's a vague enough answer for me that I won't be the one to press to test on it though.

 

What's the problem? What course of action do you want? They fixed the glitch...

 

I'm surprised you even got called. The vast majority of schedulers are unfamiliar with 23.G.10.

They skip this entire step of coverage very frequently.

Last time I went through this (My spill preference was skipped and I was not called with a proffer) they kept calling it a yellow slip. "No, ma'am, it's a reserve spillover rotation." You can hear the gears grind to a halt over the phone. " Well you didn't have a yellow slip in so we didn't call you and we went down to the next step"

My recommendation, if you have a reserve spillover preference submitted, you need to watch open time for SP trips like a hawk. They WILL skip you in the coverage ladder and it will go out as a green.

As above, they can hardly wrap their heads around 23.G.10.

If it is the more complicated case - a spill trip where the conflicted REG trip should be dropped from your line - good luck.

After explaining how it is supposed to work, and running into a brick wall, I just thank them and hang up. The only hope is to call back and have someone answer the phone that has experience and is knowledgeable about 23.G.10.

" Oh, you're calling about a reserve spillover preference? I know exactly what that is. Let me place you on hold for a moment while I fix this and update your schedule."

GD. It was like a breath of fresh air! I could go fly this trip and possibly get paid for it properly. What a concept!

I have been caught in this 20 GOTO 10 loop before and I understand how it can be incredibly frustrating. It is designed to make you quit. Like dealing with our health insurance. However, in my opinion, these trips are too lucrative to throw in the towel. ARCOS is not involved. There is no automation. Schedulers have very little experience dealing with them. You will have to babysit CS to make sure it is added to your line properly.

Final thought:

If you received a proffer, and already have the spill trip on your line, and the conflicting trip for next month is dropped, you've won more than half the battle. Don't argue with them over the phone about the pay. My advice would be to just fly the trip and deal with fixing the pay afterwards with crew assist.

I have had success opening a crew assist case under the category of "rotation guarantee," and I reference 23.G.10.