Originally Posted by saturn

First off, it shouldn't be a Min Day vs Average Day thing. You realize you CAN have both right? Not either or.. SWA has both. Thats like saying Duty period rig or Trip rig? Umm..Yes!

Can I just say, I've worked at 2 regionals, both with Min Day. At one we had a 4:45 ADG, and we switched it to a MDG of 4:00. And it was a gain! All of the same controversy about how trips would change were speculated, debated. Demise of 30 hour layovers didn't happen, uncommutable trips didn't happen. Average trip credit DID go up. It was a win, and the reason our management fought us getting it.

Here is the thing we pilots seem to forget. They don't build the network schedule driven by crew scheduling cost savings. Marketing and network make the schedule, based on demand, fleet availability and hub banks. Its the customer/demand that drives the schedule from point A->B at xx:xx time aboard ship N1234. Redeyes, <2 daily flights to a city, irregular per day service, mixed fleet service into a city, long segments..all drive crew inefficiency. It was hypothesized Carmen wouldn't build 30hr layovers with MDG..but why does Carmen build them today? The reason is because it is an inherent scheduling inefficiency, and Carmen cant avoid it, but thanks to ADG, it can put 7/8 hr block days stacked either side of a 30hr and see no increase in credit. Magic! Carmen uses ADG to make network lemons into credit reducing lemonade. The same driver of long layovers still exists in MDG. All they can do in these scenarios is pay more or DH out when able but that is also inefficienct. Longer stage fleets would be even greater benefited by MDG, as they have less options for multi leg days.

One way or another, crew resources is going to feed Carmen the schedule network hands them. Inefficiencies will exist. ADG is used as a mechanism to equalize inherent low block credit days, and save system credit. It also prevents us from accruing overblocked legs/days etc..whole other topic where we lose $$ of potential credit.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

Of course it can get worse.

Originally Posted by Der Meister

Idk 95% of the trips i currently fly are scheduled with in 45min of 117 max limits and 1 hour over 117 required rest. All for 5 or 10 minutes of credit....

i bed to differ that it cant. I had a better schedule at both a regional and LCC. Our trips are absolute dog trash and you know it.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

I'm not saying they aren't. I'm saying it can get worse. Every trip I've flown in the last 2 years has been commutable. That doesn't have to be the case.

Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF

Either your “commute” is a 15 min drive to the airport, or you are in a 100% international category.

But we are a domestic airline and down here on the NB’s, the rotations have s&cked @ss for the last two years…Scheds wrote in the monthly newsletter that commutability is down to 1%…ONE!

Double non commutable, 4 day, 16 leg, 10hr layovers with 4:59 airport sits…how do they make it worse? Move crew meal criteria to 8 hours? Make it mandatory to change planes every leg?

Originally Posted by EMAW

Another discussion about crew meals. Does anyone here have allergies or other food related issues, specifically celiac? Thought I would ask. My wife is a 7 yr FO and would really like to bid 330, but has shied away from it due to uncertainty about food enroute and on the overnights.

Originally Posted by EMAW

Another discussion about crew meals. Does anyone here have allergies or other food related issues, specifically celiac? Thought I would ask. My wife is a 7 yr FO and would really like to bid 330, but has shied away from it due to uncertainty about food enroute and on the overnights.

Originally Posted by crewdawg

Agree about Carmen, I even stated as such in one of my earlier posts. Everyone is frustrated with insanely crappy rotations and I think much more "tightening the screws," will not have the intended consequence the company is looking for. As was already stated, they've already had to back off on some things because it royally screwed them during an IROP. We all know it could be worse, it could always be worse, let's just make that a standard assumption. Let's also assume that anything we'd like to see is run through carmen to see how it looks.