Over at United
12-18-2021 | 05:57 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,131
Likes: 92
Carmen already leaves commuters underwhelmed. If anyone thinks she’ll start or finish many trips with block under the (new) guarantee, you’re smoking something. The one hope for commutable back end trips might be red eye finishes…but hitting min day efficiently on the day before go-home day could make for an ugly pre-redeye FDP.
Unless you’re looking at the results that the optimizer would spit out under any new rigs (as Crewdog mentioned), I’m not sure people really know what they’re advocating for or against. I think it’s wise to fear the unintended consequences.
12-18-2021 | 06:12 AM
#112
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 504
Likes: 12
From: 757/767
My category has a grand total of 4 rotations with 30+ hour layover, no big loss there. Aside from the associated body clock flip, I've enjoyed the occasional 30 hours layover, but I certainly wouldn't pass on a min day because we might lose 30 hour layovers. I'd like to see the union get access to Carmen and publish two bid packets for the pilots to see what it would look like with/without min day.
12-18-2021 | 06:25 AM
#113
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,436
Likes: 438
I think everyone realizes that you would see a large increase in credit comparing the same bid pack side by side with and without min day. The problem is that doesn't account for how the company's rotation construction behavior would change to account for it. Contrary to popular belief, rotation construction can still get a lot worse than it already is.
I don't disagree with you at all on that. Of course, if they get much worse, they'll likely be consequences that are undesirable to the company. We can't always avoid something because of the fear of change. The side-by-side comparison is more about seeing what trips would look like with new rules. We should have something like that for any big changes like this, rather than just going in blind. But therein lies the other big issue with our PWA, lack of control over trip construction, which needs to change.
12-18-2021 | 06:27 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,540
Likes: 506
The commutability ship has sailed. A reduction from 4% commutable down to 2% commutable isn't a factor worth considering in the coastal bases. ATL and MSP seem to have more commutable trips in the domestic categories and may feel the impact. The sodomizer killed commutability long ago.
12-18-2021 | 07:21 AM
#115
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 504
Likes: 12
From: 757/767
I don't disagree with you at all on that. Of course, if they get much worse, they'll likely be consequences that are undesirable to the company. We can't always avoid something because of the fear of change. The side-by-side comparison is more about seeing what trips would look like with new rules. We should have something like that for any big changes like this, rather than just going in blind. But therein lies the other big issue with our PWA, lack of control over trip construction, which needs to change.
12-18-2021 | 07:49 AM
#117
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,436
Likes: 438
There is QOL in working less days/month, but you're right, there has to be a balance of work day QOL as well. More control over rotation construction is absolutely needed.
12-18-2021 | 08:51 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 197
From: Looking left
The commutability ship has sailed. A reduction from 4% commutable down to 2% commutable isn't a factor worth considering in the coastal bases. ATL and MSP seem to have more commutable trips in the domestic categories and may feel the impact. The sodomizer killed commutability long ago.
2%??? Quit your bragging!!!
NYC 737 is down to 1%
12-18-2021 | 08:56 AM
#119
Coverage Award...
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 127
The problem is that doesn't account for how the company's rotation construction behavior would change to make up for it. We would just be guessing which exposes us to a bit of risk there. Contrary to popular belief, rotation construction can still get a lot worse than it already is.
Southwest folks seem to like AM/PM trips. Not something I'm not necessarily advocating for it but it's an example of a potential QOL tool.
12-18-2021 | 09:02 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,993
Likes: 197
From: Looking left
The problem is that doesn't account for how the company's rotation construction behavior would change to make up for it. We would just be guessing which exposes us to a bit of risk there. Contrary to popular belief, rotation construction can still get a lot worse than it already is.
We already have 4:59 hour sits, 10:01 layovers, and 1% commutability with 0500 reports and 2345 releases (I'm talking about you LGA) and 4 day trips with 16 legs.....how much worse could they possible make it?!?! Please enlighten us!
Bring on the Min Day!
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