Here, you are wrong.

 

This isn’t directed at you, CBreezy, but have we (DALPA) ever entertained the idea of a slight percent bump in pay for the longer FDP’s or block days? I agree that increasing MinDay is just going to make our trips worse and less commutable and I’m a commuter so that matters to me, but I also agree that having a day with 8:30+ block that averages out with a 4 hour day on a 4 day and ends up only paying 21 hours blows.

What if we had language that any FDP, longer than say 10 hours paid 120% for every hour after hour 7 for example, and/or any duty period with more than 6:30 block, paid 120% for every hour after hour 5.5 or something. Nothing too punitive or punishing to the company where they avoid building trips with an occasional long or hard day, (I like productive trips too) but something with a little reward for those SAN-DTW-PHX 8:28 block days where you can barely see straight when you get to the hotel.

Maybe something along those lines could reward us for the long days, while not causing undue changes to Carmen’s rotation construction criteria. I’m sure there are ways this could bite us too, I’m just trying to think of some soft pay strategies that might not hurt across the board like a straight min day increase.

Thoughts?

 

Anything over 6 hrs of block pays double, anything over 7 pays triple, and anything over 8 pay 4 times the amount.

 

I would dig this, as it would hopefully prevent atrocities in the creation of pairings. Other week had an 8+ hour block day (domestic) that was proceeded by a circadian shift w/ loooong FDP, which was proceeded by a red eye/day layover. We both planned to call in fatigued, but by the grace of FSM we got re-routed into a single leg and done.

 

Come on, man! I’d love that too, but let’s be realistic. Let’s try to think of ways to increase our pay for the longer days, with the goal of finding something that 1.) Management might agree to, and 2.) something that won’t drastically change rotations in a negative way, but quite possibly make trips more palatable.

A 20% bump in pay for longer days seems reasonable. Let’s say one day of your rotation has 8.0 block and 12.5 hours of duty.
A 20% in pay for 2.5 hours block and 20% for 5.5 hours duty. That would pay 1.6 x hourly rate. That would be an extra $456 at A321 rates.

Now that I did the math, it’s a little on the light side. Maybe 125%. I don’t know. Just trying to think of alternative ways of being rewarded for the harder days.

 

The tail doesn't wag the dog. And lets be honest, we're talking a few hours of credit over days of work on some trips. Overall it has millions of dollars impact in credit per duty period avg. But you can't eliminate all the network inefficiencies MDG helps offset without rescheduling dep times to less convenient connections, putting the wrong gauge on a route, or eliminating routes altogether. Revenue and fleet utilization will always rue the day here. Reducing pilot credit because we have a min day is left to crew resources, AFTER the schedule is built. Only collaboration I can see would be consolidation of fleet types in outstations to better facilitate trip construction and overnight reductions...but they are already doing this, for a multitude of other reasons as well. Again, I was at a DCI that had ADG, then switched to a MDG. I know what it did for us, and it increased avg credit per duty period and altered trip construction negatively much less than y'alls fear, because network runs the airline. Ask Bob S.

But the either or argument isnt needed. This is more of an ADG left to itself is being exploited against us. Lets keep our ADG, and ADD a Min day on top of it. Like SWA.

 

Sadly, there are many that think it's ok for the company to schedule like this who simply say, "just call in fatigued if you're tired." The company is planning on a big percentage of the pilots being "get the mission done" types that will just push through. Even some of our own pilots (ATL-JAX) are OK with this line of thinking. What a completely backwards and unsafe way of operating.



I like the line of thinking, it's a lot more constructive than "it could be worse." A similar option would be X% increase after X block time per day, but that alone wouldn't help certain fleets out all that much. A combo of stepped up Block/FDP/sit rigs would like work better. A hefty sit rig after 1.5 hours would be a great start. We'd need some 10 pound brains to gonk the numbers to see what makes sense and what would be painful....and of course, see how it looks in carmen.

 

Wow. Even at Endeavor we get better than that.

If I have a 5 day trip with a 28hr layover that blocks 13:00, I get paid 25:00 for the trip. 4:00 min day, even when on a layover, and 5 day trips are rigged to credit 25hrs minimum.

There's lots of reasons why UAL is my #1 legacy, and this thread has only added more...

 

UA does not have non day either FYI

5hour ADG

 

The 21 hour example you responded to was a 4 day trip. A 5 day trip at Delta pays 26:15