Originally Posted by Gone Flying

let’s say you are on a 4 day.
day 1 -3 legs, 7 hours block
day 2 -2 legs, 5 hour of block
day 3 - 30 hour overnight
day 4 - 3 legs, 6 hours of block

with ADG you would be guaranteed an average of 5:15 per calendar day in this example you block 18 but the average of 5:15x4 would be 21 so the trip would pay 21 hours

with MDG you would get 5:15 minimum for each day. Since day 2 and 3 were below this, their credit would be 5:15 while still getting 7 and 6 hours pay for day 1 and 4. In this example the trip would pay 23.5 hours (7+ 5.25+ 5.25+ 6)*

*5:15=5.25

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

theoretically yes,although I came from a place with MDG and I still had plenty of days below min.

in my perfect world we would have both
5:15 average
3-4 hour min.

Originally Posted by Funk

What about giving vacation points that you can spend to buy certain vacation weeks? If I have four weeks of vacation points but don't mind taking shoulder months, maybe I can get 6 or seven seeks of actual paid time off. If I want to trade four weeks in for one week at Christmas (or pick your highly desirable vacation week), then I could do that. I think the rub that many experience WRT vacation is limited availability of desirable weeks, etc.

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad

How long ago was that and with this team that seems to want to squeeze as hard as they can?

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

Good explanation. However left unsaid (and unknown) is, if we had MDC vs ADG would the trips even look the same? Some would, especially on the international side. Domestically that would not be the case, so it is hard to just say "see with MDC this trip paid more!" With MDC that trip might not exist to begin with. Of course our trips right now can't get any worse as it is!

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad

Absolutely. No more short days, they will figure out a way to make sure you fly at or above min day as much as humanly possible.

Upside, you fill up on ALV or reserve quicker because you get crushed your work days.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

That would make it ultra prohibitive for holiday vacations to all but the senior people who are willing to spend 4 weeks for 1, which frees them up for more GSs. Min available weeks during holidays needs to increase and holiday pay for the holiday footprint days. Then those who want to work will bid them and those who don't will have a chance.

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad

Absolutely. No more short days, they will figure out a way to make sure you fly at or above min day as much as humanly possible.

Upside, you fill up on ALV or reserve quicker because you get crushed your work days.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

In 2007 Delta’s cost per block hour for pilots was 470.00. In 2019 it was 1239.00. The 2019 cost was probably the highest pilot block hour cost at any airline world wide and did not include profit sharing which would have elevated us even higher. That’s the value of knocking out timely contracts that compound. You also have to understand the RLA and how it functions. It flat out blocks grand slams.
As to your assertion that other parts of the contract have been neglected the DC plan went from 9 to 16%. Sick leave went from 65 hours to 270. Reroute pay improved dramatically. Greenslips went from 150 to 200%. Restrictions on greenslips in months with training or vacation were removed. Reserve duty rigs were improved to match line holders. Reserve pay was increased from a flat 70 hours to a average of 76. We retained the best crew augmentation policies world wide while almost everyone else caved. We improved disability from 40 hours a month pay to 50%FAE including profit sharing and made it fully pensionable. We increased min layover times substantially. We added more reserve days off and obtained early release options. We added a average daily guarantee. We improved on duty guarantees after midnight. We added time limits for return to base on reroutes. We added a enhanced disability account. We increased vacation and training pay. Increased distributed training pay. The above is off the top of my head and probably about ⅓ of the improvements since bankruptcy. The work rule changes alone reduced our productivity 20% from 2007.

Originally Posted by Funk

If we look at the scheduling monkey business that goes on now, I think the real opportunity would be to disincentivize long sits (and/or pay dearly for them) in the middle of a duty period, either in base (virtual airport ready reserve if you touch a base like ATL), or in the 4:59 sit in RSW or JAX, etc. Part of the reason we see the terribly fatiguing rotations is that rather than have 14-16 hours at an overnight, they go closer to min rest on NBs so that they can keep you on duty and swap you around to cover anything they want when you touch a base.