PB days
11-16-2022, 04:36 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,746
Originally Posted by BeamMeUp
Q about APD and PB with a rotation near holidays.
I’m aware of the 2 prior/1 after provision of APDs. My question is does it apply to the entire rotation or the individual day if only using APD on one day of the trip to drop it. Example
3-day from 12/28-30 releasing after midnight. No dates are on a holiday but 30 is within the 2 prior window of New Years Day. All dates have 25% coverage. Can I use a singular date APD request on the 28 or 29th to drop the rotation or will the 30th (last day) be an issue since it’s within 2 days. Wasn’t sure if the 30th would be considered if using a singular day APD to drop. Also if using the singular day I’m pretty sure I can use multiple PB days to cover the trip, yes?
I’m aware of the 2 prior/1 after provision of APDs. My question is does it apply to the entire rotation or the individual day if only using APD on one day of the trip to drop it. Example
3-day from 12/28-30 releasing after midnight. No dates are on a holiday but 30 is within the 2 prior window of New Years Day. All dates have 25% coverage. Can I use a singular date APD request on the 28 or 29th to drop the rotation or will the 30th (last day) be an issue since it’s within 2 days. Wasn’t sure if the 30th would be considered if using a singular day APD to drop. Also if using the singular day I’m pretty sure I can use multiple PB days to cover the trip, yes?
Another public announcement for this kind of dilemma, you can swap with the pot to another trip on completely different days as long as the days covered have a more negative total (even by just one day) than the trip you are dropping and it even works on all holidays.
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
And if getting out of all the flying is your goal, then you can drop your APD/IVD on the trip that you picked up (as long as the min reserve coverage for APD's is met) and holiday will no longer be a factor.
11-16-2022, 04:43 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 664
Originally Posted by nene
A lot of new guys/gals around here and many don't realize this:
Another public announcement for this kind of dilemma, you can swap with the pot to another trip on completely different days as long as the days covered have a more negative total (even by just one day) than the trip you are dropping and it even works on all holidays.
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
And if getting out of all the flying is your goal, then you can drop your APD/IVD on the trip that you picked up (as long as the min reserve coverage for APD's is met) and holiday will no longer be a factor.
Another public announcement for this kind of dilemma, you can swap with the pot to another trip on completely different days as long as the days covered have a more negative total (even by just one day) than the trip you are dropping and it even works on all holidays.
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
And if getting out of all the flying is your goal, then you can drop your APD/IVD on the trip that you picked up (as long as the min reserve coverage for APD's is met) and holiday will no longer be a factor.
11-16-2022, 05:30 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: MD-88 FO
Posts: 1,558
Originally Posted by BlueSkies
Won't he have to swap into a 4 day because the current 3 day finishes after midnight?
11-16-2022, 05:32 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by BlueSkies
Won't he have to swap into a 4 day because the current 3 day finishes after midnight?
11-16-2022, 06:16 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by nene
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
Originally Posted by Gspeed
All that matters are the coverage numbers. I’ve swapped from a 4-day to a 1-day before due to the 1-day have terrible coverage compared to the cumulative coverage numbers of the 4-day.
If it does touch one of those 36 days, including if it duties off after midnight but before 2am, every day of that trip or multiple trips you are trying to drop that is negative reserves has to have a day you are picking up that is more negative than that day. If you are trying to drop 2 different 3 day trips, 1 touching a holiday, it would potentially be denied if every day was negative unless you were picking up 6 days of even worse coverage.
11-17-2022, 04:27 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,890
Originally Posted by Puddytatt
Cumulative is only if a day doesn't touch an APD holiday period listed in 23 I 10 a. Exception.
If it does touch one of those 36 days, including if it duties off after midnight but before 2am, every day of that trip or multiple trips you are trying to drop that is negative reserves has to have a day you are picking up that is more negative than that day. If you are trying to drop 2 different 3 day trips, 1 touching a holiday, it would potentially be denied if every day was negative unless you were picking up 6 days of even worse coverage.
11-17-2022, 05:33 AM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Position: 757/767 F/O
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by nene
A lot of new guys/gals around here and many don't realize this:
Another public announcement for this kind of dilemma, you can swap with the pot to another trip on completely different days as long as the days covered have a more negative total (even by just one day) than the trip you are dropping and it even works on all holidays.
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
And if getting out of all the flying is your goal, then you can drop your APD/IVD on the trip that you picked up (as long as the min reserve coverage for APD's is met) and holiday will no longer be a factor.
Another public announcement for this kind of dilemma, you can swap with the pot to another trip on completely different days as long as the days covered have a more negative total (even by just one day) than the trip you are dropping and it even works on all holidays.
EX: Say trip A you want to drop is 12/ 28-30 and has negative reserve coverage of -3, -4, -4 on the respective days.
Now say you notice that for whatever reason 12/ 15-17 has -8, +4, -8 reserve coverage, you find trip B in open time covering those days.
Barring any other illegalities concerning block time etc, you can swap with pot trip B for A (holiday rules do not matter). Trips do not have to touch or overlap in any way.
You can even trade into a longer day trip if you need an extra days to make the negative reserve coverage shortfall work, ie the total days of trip net reserve coverage is all the "swap with the pot" computer looks at.
And if getting out of all the flying is your goal, then you can drop your APD/IVD on the trip that you picked up (as long as the min reserve coverage for APD's is met) and holiday will no longer be a factor.
11-17-2022, 05:42 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by Snookered
This is great info … many thanks for the explanation. Anyone know if you can swap for a carryover trip? E.g. swap a 4 day over Christmas 24-27th for a 5-day that starts on Nov 30th (assuming the reserve coverage math works out) …
Nene's post is inaccurate.
Look at puddytatt's response because it breaks down the difference between holiday and non-holiday drops/swaps
11-17-2022, 12:00 PM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
Also, if I’m reading the PWA correctly, it appears as if you can’t swap Christmas and Thanksgiving holiday period trips at all if A is less than R. Regardless of relative negative availability days. And of course A is always less than R on those days.
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