DWC CAP10 USAF

It was WATRS years ago, then it was WATRS+, then changed again about a year ago....just WAT.

Standard on what fleet, beucase in the 737 it was taught as a technique to put the drift down speed in the Capt's MCP Course window and the driftdown Altitude in the FO's MCP Course window, but if you were talkling about putting it in the MCP altitude window then agreed, we don't do that.

Vsop

Yes the 767 flies WATRS while enroute to South America

notEnuf

Do those routes require ETOPS at any point? I haven't been south of Aruba. The other stuff in SA puts you over the Caribean and CA so no ETOPS.

GogglesPisano

Yes, this is all technique. On the ER we "double-bug," the EO speed, on the 737 it goes in the CA's VOR course window. They're both for SA only as in an actual driftdown the aircraft will be in VNAV and the speed window will be closed. Pre-bugging the altitude is more important because the MCP altitude window is always open.

GogglesPisano

I thought we were discussing ETOPS in general.

I would try to stay as high as possible to avoid icing conditions. If lower keeps me clear then so be it. If no icing then my priority is max groundspeed to the most suitable alternate, this would require an analysis of winds vs altitude.

JamesBond

I am referring to company position reports. Do you send turbulence reports to the company after an automatically sent position report? And just out of curiosity, when you do do HF reports, do you do only the compulsory points or do you do what I have seen FOs do dozens of times and read all of them?

JamesBond

They don't get turbulence reports. Do your fellow homies a solid and send one at every company reporting points.

Cranberry

DWC CAP10 USAF

are you saying they are making HF position reports at every point along the Lima route?

notEnuf

I understand what you are saying. My point is that ETOPS doesn't apply to routes that aren't dispatched as ETOPS flights. The discussion gets muddied when we talk ETOPS on non-ETOPS operations. It is completely a dispatch function based on route selection and aircraft capabilities. Once the airplane is in the air none of it matters. Sure you should try to stay within the ETOPS limits if you can ON AN ETOPS FLIGHT, but things can change and a dispatcher banging away on a computer doesn't change the reality of the flight. Similarly for a normal flight plan, dispatch can provide information but can't change weather via keystrokes. Non-ETOS, WATRS, ops have no circle requirements. We teach as if everything is ETOPS and for standardization use those techniques but the real answer for me is: Have a place to go if the stuff hits the fan and use your judgement to ensure a safe operating margin. My lower single engine cruise altitude as an example, I see max altitude stall single engine and control effectiveness as a greater threat to the situation (which has real world evidence of occuring) than possible icing. I'm not saying any techique is wrong but I not blindly following generic guidance that was developed for standardization. Nuance matters. BTW, I have for a long time advocated for immediate action cards instead of memory items for obvious reasons, but corprate inertia...