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sailingfun 10-28-2022 04:44 AM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 3521905)
Ah, but what does the rest of the rotation look like that contains the red eye? Is one rotation covering all of the weekend, or are two splitting it? Is the holiday being flown by someone who is happy to do it for extra pay, or by someone who would rather not at straight pay? Is the rotation the one you were awarded and could plan your life around, or one you were rerouted into that causes chaos for family plans?

Your 330 world, with kids out of the house - there’s really not much chaos to be had and you may think these things are deck chair movements. For the majority of our list, the experience is quite a bit different.

Trust me, there are kids in my house and kid chaos in my world!

TED74 10-28-2022 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3521922)
Trust me, there are kids in my house and kid chaos in my world!

Admittedly, I don’t know your situation. But grandkids are a different scenario than round one unless their parents aren’t in the picture.

Does your spouse work full time? How many times have you been rerouted in the last 12 months? How many nights away from home do you average on the 330? If you sit reserve, what percentage of your RES days are you working?

interceptorpilo 10-28-2022 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3521901)
Pay is the biggest single component of quality of life. All the other QOL items in reality move the deck chairs on which pilots fly which days but no matter how you write the contract the same number of pilots have to work weekends, holidays and fly the all nighters.

I would agree given the same number of pilots and same number of trips but QOL items make the airline hire more to execute a given schedule which then does NOT just shuffle the deck chairs. As in someone who is flying every weekend currently might get one weekend off a month with more pilots.

sailingfun 10-28-2022 05:30 AM


Originally Posted by interceptorpilo (Post 3521939)
I would agree given the same number of pilots and same number of trips but QOL items make the airline hire more to execute a given schedule which then does NOT just shuffle the deck chairs. As in someone who is flying every weekend currently might get one weekend off a month with more pilots.

How do you push that through the mediation process when you are already among the least productive pilot groups world wide.

Iceberg 10-28-2022 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3521954)
How do you push that through the mediation process when you are already among the least productive pilot groups world wide.

If management wanted, they could simplify the fleets to boost productivity. Recent orders show they aren’t interested in that so I see no reason we should feel differently. Improved vacation allocation and schedule construction is a priority.

TED74 10-28-2022 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3521954)
How do you push that through the mediation process when you are already among the least productive pilot groups world wide.

We aren’t responsible for overcoming gross mismanagement.

Bucking Bar 10-28-2022 05:45 AM


Originally Posted by Jamis81 (Post 3521920)
that’s what several senior XJ lifers said when offered a flow to NWA.. sad to see this become true again.

It is a strange truth to be sure.

Outsourcing just adds cost to airline operations. Delta management knows (maybe they conveniently forgot) that the "service provided by" sticker adds 7% to 9% to the total cost of the operation. Somebody is paying the redundant managers, maintenance and costs of the additional certificate. Now that the game of pilot labor arbitrage is over outsourcing is cost +, plus, for no benefit whatsoever. Unit costs at the regionals are through the roof.

Management everywhere is going to keep foot-dragging, reducing the real cost of mainline pilots through inflation, until FORCED by a labor disruption to take action to save the business. We have as labor friendly an administration as we are ever going to have. We need to watch what happens with these railroad unions VERY carefully. Biden's telling them they DO NOT want to take this to Congress. At the same time the last thing the Biden administration needs is a railway strike right now. I do not know how it ends up. I do think we are likely to follow that pattern.

The Railway Labor Act is unjust.

iahflyr 10-28-2022 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by Gone Flying (Post 3521732)
I get a 19% raise for our top CRJ rate to match theirs.

Which is about what I expect Delta’s pay raise will be at the end of this contract in a few years. Basically they have eliminated the B scale at the regionals, which is a good thing.

sailingfun 10-28-2022 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 3521966)
We aren’t responsible for overcoming gross mismanagement.

We have people smart enough to point out the issues to the mediator. It doesn’t move the bar much. We could probably trade better reserve day groupings and recovery for IOE dropped trips to get better across the board QOL changes but we seem to like a very capitalist contract instead of spreading the wealth.

interceptorpilo 10-28-2022 05:47 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3521954)
How do you push that through the mediation process when you are already among the least productive pilot groups world wide.

This is your same tired argument. We are not less “productive”. Management is due to their fleet/base structure and poorly managed AE/training system.


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