Originally Posted by OOfff

they aren’t tied together. The establishment of an MBCBP does not assume nor require the minimum balance concept to be part of it.

so I ask again, is anyone opposed to the MB concept “selfish” “snot nosed flyboys” worthy of your derision?

Originally Posted by Tailhookah

Where will the $$ go if the min balance is agreed upon? Not your 401k. That breaks IRS laws amigo. Ah…. The MBCBP or something else. We’ve already won the use of the MBCBP via one of the Covid LOA’s but like many other things here Delta hasn’t made it available yet and that’s due to US gov approval (so says Delta, even though it was supposed to be in play in tax year 2021).

Originally Posted by OOfff

the LOA was predicated upon an optional MBCBP, and you are still incorrectly assuming that the MBCBP comes with a minimum balance concept, amigo

The establishment of even a non-optional MBCBP does not require a minimum balance concept.

Originally Posted by Tailhookah

No I’m not. I said the seed money would most likely go into the MBCBP since it can’t go into your 401k. MBCBP is already agreed to.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Another way to explain this is:
Day one Min Balance in a MBCBP, $300,000
Day two, someone retires with $300,000 having contributed nothing - company pays all
15th of the month, after 401K is full, pilots' excess is routed into the MBCBP
Pilot retires the second year after the contract - they get $300,000 but $290,000 was funded by the company and $10,000 funded by the pilot's excess which is routed into the MBCBP
Pilot retires seven years from now. They get the $300,000 but it has been completely funded by their own excess, and so on, company contributes $0.

Easy to explain with a chart, but basically pilots retiring soonest gain the greatest benefit since they had no time to contribute their excess. In other words, they've been enjoying eating their cake and will get a cake too. Those who retire later get to bake their own cake and take it with them.

I would prefer not to ascribe motives to what the MEC is trying to do here. Obviously, the Min Balance only benefits those soon to retire. Any idea that junior pilots are "selfish" for not wanting to divert half a billion $ or so misses the mark. Any notion that senior pilots are "greedy" for wanting the security of more $ for an uncertain retirement also misses the mark. Assume everyone has unlimited greed. Also assume everyone is the head of a household with a family to support and nobody knows what this industry or the equities market (in whatever you invest in) is going to do.

It is beyond silly that some senior pilots are on here stating they negotiated DC for junior pilots, ha! They negotiated DC because it benefitted all pilots equally and at that me they were mid-seniority and mid-career, when EQUAL across the board seemed like a good idea.

My forecast is that After Thanksgiving when the decision makers are at the table the Negotiators will be given a bag of cash & the problem of how to allocate that cash across pay rates and min balance. They will take that problem to the MEC and get direction. The MEC will demand both. To get a deal done the thing will have to be allocated.

The company has no specific objection to a min balance, in fact, they likely don't care. They'll pull it from pay and let the MEC Reps fight it out.

Pay rates are better for the industry and for future pattern bargaining, JMHO.

Originally Posted by Tailhookah

Everything in the contract benefits all. Even the ones not hired yet. The training pay, hotels for new hires and B scale just to name a few that used negotiating capital for the benefit of the junior guys. That no one on property when those were added or deleted benefitted from one cent. Come on man. There’s always give and take. Always.

Originally Posted by Scoop

All true but as pointed out by someone above vacation accrual has been accelerated. So everyone already on 5 weeks vacation gets squat from this benefit. If you were here 10-15 years you get a little bump from this and if you are a new hire you enjoy the full amount of this benefit.

Not saying I am for a minimum balance, but just pointing out the inconsistencies of the argument that it unfairly benefits the old guys - it does. Vacation accrual acceleration unfairly benefits the new guys - we could have just as easily added back a sixth or even 7th week week (which we use to have) which have benefited everyone equally.
I don't see many junior Pilots arguing how an accelerated vacation accrual is unfair to the senior Pilots - especially those howling against the minimum balance.

Which just goes to what I have always been saying - if the overall PWA is considered unfair by the majority it will be shot down. If various disaffected groups don't like particular aspects of the PWA the devil will be in the details, and if it does more overall good for the majority it will pass, unless of course it is a turd in which all demographics are equally insulted.

Scoop