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Old 01-31-2023 | 12:53 PM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
I think you are giving uninformed and erroneous advice on the fatigue matter.

But that's JMHO.

Feel free to carry on then.
I'm giving no one advice on whether to call in fatigued. I'm rejecting the premise that working back to back lean overs, especially done purely voluntarily, is dangerous.
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Old 01-31-2023 | 01:06 PM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
I'm giving no one advice on whether to call in fatigued. I'm rejecting the premise that working back to back lean overs, especially done purely voluntarily, is dangerous.
Post 251 255 261 would disagree

Again, you're batting out of your league here.

You're not an expert and therefore really have no right to comment or pass information that is inaccurate.

Your union is clear on the matter. Hopefully the new contract obviates some of these crappy rotations that do intrude on normal, restful sleep patterns and behaviors

But hey it's APC, makes everything and everyone an expert
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Old 01-31-2023 | 01:13 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
Post 251 255 261 would disagree

Again, you're batting out of your league here.

You're not an expert and therefore really have no right to comment or pass information that is inaccurate.

You're union is clear on the matter. Hopefully the new contract obviates some of these crappy rotations that do intrude on normal, restful sleep patterns and behaviors

But hey it's APC, makes everything and everyone an expert
I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm refuting the guy who said people who fly lean overs should watch their back. It's not illegal. It's not even worrisome. Just because YOU don't want to do them doesn't make them dangerous. I'm sure you think commuting should be part of your FDP too.

​​​​​
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Old 01-31-2023 | 01:15 PM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by Danger Close
Doesn’t this require proper coverage ?
​​​​​​For a swap no. As long as the trip you're swapping into has worse coverage(bad day/worse day).

For WS conflict of a trip next bid period coverage doesn't matter. You're entitled to the current month trip scheduling has to drop the next bid period trip it conflicts with unpaid
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Old 01-31-2023 | 01:58 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm refuting the guy who said people who fly lean overs should watch their back. It's not illegal. It's not even worrisome. Just because YOU don't want to do them doesn't make them dangerous. I'm sure you think commuting should be part of your FDP too.

​​​​​
so I guess nobody is entitled to have an opinion that disagrees with yours?
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Old 01-31-2023 | 02:10 PM
  #276  
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Some people use 8 hours bottle to throttle WRT legalities....some use 12 hours WRT "optics" regardless of legalities I think I can figure out who is who in this hypothetical "whataboutism".
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Old 01-31-2023 | 02:20 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
Some people use 8 hours bottle to throttle WRT legalities....some use 12 hours WRT "optics" regardless of legalities I think I can figure out who is who in this hypothetical "whataboutism".
some use common sense and don't drink til blackout drunk before trips either
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Old 01-31-2023 | 02:21 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm refuting the guy who said people who fly lean overs should watch their back. It's not illegal. It's not even worrisome. Just because YOU don't want to do them doesn't make them dangerous. I'm sure you think commuting should be part of your FDP too.

​​​​​
You brought in circadians, what constitutes a behavioral rest period, and thusly espoused a level, so you thought, of expert opinion. Moreover you further pontificated on what the human brain is capable of functioning on vis a vis required sleep.

Now, last wiki told me that was the sole purview of neurology ergo a neurologist ergo a highly educated trained and board certified clinician.

None of which I'm pretty sure you are not.

Bojangles is not a day sleeper. He told you that. You took the ball and dove down the rabbit hole like Alice, not him.

Most normal humans are not day sleepers as a matter of fact.

Fatigue is fatigue. We have protection. For a reason.

Seems you have some issues with this. Fine. It's an open board and we can all opine on matters.
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Old 01-31-2023 | 02:28 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by MrBojangles
some use common sense and don't drink til blackout drunk before trips either
I would guess that is not legal. Seems like one side is saying use common sense and press on if legal....the other side is "Well it's, legal but watch out...the optics will screw you." IE, "You better not do it...that would be poor judgment"
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Old 01-31-2023 | 02:44 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
You brought in circadians, what constitutes a behavioral rest period, and thusly espoused a level, so you thought, of expert opinion. Moreover you further pontificated on what the human brain is capable of functioning on vis a vis required sleep.

Now, last wiki told me that was the sole purview of neurology ergo a neurologist ergo a highly educated trained and board certified clinician.

None of which I'm pretty sure you are not.

Bojangles is not a day sleeper. He told you that. You took the ball and dove down the rabbit hole like Alice, not him.

Most normal humans are not day sleepers as a matter of fact.

Fatigue is fatigue. We have protection. For a reason.

Seems you have some issues with this. Fine. It's an open board and we can all opine on matters.
Haha. This isn't how a real person talks. We have training in circadian rhythm, we have to know what the window of circadian low is and we get training in fatigue. Being aware of it doesn't make anyone an expert but it does allow them to have educated discussions, something you apparently believe you can't have unless you are a PhD. You do know what the C in WOCL means, right?

​​​​​​I'm not the one making sweeping generalizations that all types of flying designated as lean overs are fatiguing or dangerous. Either you are making that argument or claiming that I'm not an expert enough to say that making that argument is flawed and absurd.
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