Originally Posted by nene

As someone that hasn't stayed there for over 8yrs, just a question, what is so bad about the NOORD hotel in AMS? It is specifically called out in this contract.

When I stayed there last it seemed enjoyable enough in location and even a nice little pub if the weather was sheitz and you didn't want to leave to imbibe a beverage.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The highest number I ever heard was 20/8/8 but am now told it was 16/8/8. The total of over 3 billion was not non sense and dead on. Now that the contract is done ask your reps. You can also simply look at the parts of the opener that were published and reach a logical conclusion. What happened to that 25% DC/MCBP and 260 hours of vacation with a equal distribution of weeks? From a 3 billion plus opener in year one to 150 million one time payment! We got them!

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Location sucked. Van to the city and back. The times weren't very convenient either.

Originally Posted by Taildragger1

Congratulations to all the Junior pilots on achieving their goals. Too bad about the retro though. For the first time in history, management has every incentive not to come to the table after the amendable date. They’re celebrating.

Originally Posted by Scoop

Lets look big picture here. About every 10 years we have a "Black Swan" event that management uses very effectively against labor. Early 1990s - war and recession resulting in POS C-96 and furloughs. 9-11 resulting in furloughs, LOA-46, BK, and finally LOA-51, pretty much the nadir of the industry. 2008 financial crisis that management really couldn't maximize to their advantage since labor was already at the 9-11 low. Covid - resulting in UNAs, not furloughs, and a mutually agreed upon 2 year pause in negotiations.

Now who in the industry has raised the bar this friggin century? UAL in 2000 and since then, drum-roll please............................... us, the Delta Pilots. We have been consistently agreeing to serious productivity work rule concessions back to and including C-2000, yes C2000 in which we were blindsided by RJs and opened the door for that whole fiasco. And I am talking real concessions, not imaginary ones like since we did not get X - that is a concession. UAL and AAL pilots never really had to bargain much for rates they just matched us and concentrated on work rules QOL etc and wisely included snap ups in their deals as they will currently.

So we didn't achieve full retro - yes that sucks, but we did get a partial non retro sort of retro signing bonus. When you look at the outcome of all the airline Black Swan events we clearly came out of this the best and primarily, IMHO, becasue of supply and demand. If there was not a serious Pilot shortage this contract would have looked a lot different, and by that I mean crappy at the historical norms of Black Swan PWAs. As much as we think we can just bargain a little harder with a little more backbone and get what we demand, we are severely limited by two main factors the RLA and supply and demand.

So while not perfect, I will take this as a win, look forward to my non-retro sort of retro bonus and feel very confident that we set zero precedent as far as retro goes. We got 100% retro in 2016 - did that set a precedent - Hell no! Just as this will not set a precedent - each negotiation is vastly different and the playing field is set by existing market conditions, so yes if there is another Black Swan that delays the PWA for three years we will probably not see full retro but given the historical sub 1 year delay - I'm betting full retro will be required to pass.

Scoop - just my cents.

Originally Posted by Mooner

This thread has achieved its life expectancy.

Takeaway: TA passed by effectively 100% consensus.

25% are incapable of voting yes and joining the consensus. This has nothing to do with merit or lack thereof of any potential agreement. It’s a personality issue. It applies across the board throughout society whenever a large group is polled or casts a vote.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

BFD. There are plenty of restaurants in the area around that hotel and AMS ain't all that great of a city anyway. Now we are gonna be stuck in traffic going downtown for an extra half hour.

Originally Posted by Jaww

Or just Delta, Endeavor can negotiate for itself.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

BFD. There are plenty of restaurants in the area around that hotel and AMS ain't all that great of a city anyway. Now we are gonna be stuck in traffic going downtown for an extra half hour.