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MrBojangles 05-21-2023 08:22 AM

if I called scheduling first about every violation i saw I would be on the phone all day

ancman 05-21-2023 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by dragon (Post 3639618)
The company is blaming us, I know because I flew with someone who spoke to Tim H-R at a PUB event who said they were just responding to our group having a blanket GS in all of the time without accepting responsibility for our woefully lacking IT or their decision to let everyone who know what they were doing to leave in 2020.

Kind of funny coming from the same people who were begging us all to “get our slips in” a year or two ago.

gloopy 05-21-2023 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by dragon (Post 3639618)
Absolutely! Unfortunately, what I fear is we solve the company's problems with no gain for the pilots.

The company decided to let all of the experienced schedulers leave during 2020 and then hire back entry level employees who didn't get trained properly, or if they did, were quickly recognized by another department/division and scooped up resulting in the replacement's replacement not being given nearly as thorough training as the predecessor.

The company is blaming us, I know because I flew with someone who spoke to Tim H-R at a PUB event who said they were just responding to our group having a blanket GS in all of the time without accepting responsibility for our woefully lacking IT or their decision to let everyone who know what they were doing to leave in 2020.

Yeah, getting a million pilots paid for "batch size" violations is the least of my concerns. I'd give that up in a second for an equivalent amount of money in any other area.

But...a contract is a contract. So I want that paid as appropriate. What I really want is an instant remedy for RR and coverage issue instead of the "fly now, grieve later, and maybe get paid months down the road and get nothing if you don't catch it in real time with a million moving pieces going on" system we have.

Bait 05-21-2023 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by BlueSkies (Post 3639587)
It's not about what we had during Covid, it's about what he had pre-optimizer. Magically we still made truck-loads of money even with significantly higher staffing levels. Yes there was still a lot of premium flying but nothing like the last few years. That would do more than all the other ideas to fix the trouble with covering trips.

I remember a time not too long ago when Deltanet proudly tracked the number of consecutive cancel-free days. And it was generally an impressive number. You know, back when management actually cared about running a tight operation. If we truly are properly staffed (as we keep hearing over and over), when do we return to those days? We were still making $ by the truckload, by the way.

I feel like some lackey built a spreadsheet showing how long we can keep loyal customers based on the memory of that time, but not actually spend the resources it took to make it happen. As long as that timeline is longer than someone’s retirement plans, it’s all good!

StartngOvr 05-21-2023 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by MrBojangles (Post 3638890)
i agree with you that we should receive something in kind, but I'm not sure why this wasn't addressed in the new PWA-that was the time to do it. it's not like this is a new problem

Because 78% of pilots prefer shiny coins rather than work rule gains?

OOfff 05-21-2023 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by StartngOvr (Post 3639768)
Because 78% of pilots prefer shiny coins rather than work rule gains?

do you think there were no work rule gains in the new CBA?

beis77 05-21-2023 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by MrBojangles (Post 3639540)
what if I told you that these premium trips can actually make you work a lot less?

100% agree. Some like to WS and that’s their business. I admit, broken trips are nice. But I’d much rather fly right to the GS trigger (no straight pay over the trigger) and then pick up one nice 2-3 day greenie near the end of the month and call it a day. The goal isn’t to work as much as possible, it’s to get as much pay for the least amount of work possible

beis77 05-21-2023 04:34 PM


Originally Posted by MrBojangles (Post 3639391)
yes it is. For instance I know one category a guy just posted somewhere else he was number 190 on the list in arcos. you tell me how a trip 3 hours out is supposed to get covered with a GS 5 people at a time when all the people that are at the top now have a blanket slip in with no intention of taking a trip? It's impossible and that's why they go to IA.

I think this is predominantly an issue in the larger NB categories, like ATL 7ER. To your point, they’re not getting thru 400+ pilots 5 at a time in a reasonable time, so I’m not surprised that they’re pulling the IA trigger at 3 prior. I’m not saying it’s right or that I agree with it, the system is clearly broken. But that’s the simple reality of the situation.

I haven’t witnessed the same shenanigans on the NYC 73. Yes we have our fair share of IAs, but the category is half the size of the one’s really getting beat up by 23M7.

the blanket greenies in the system are certainly bogging it down further, but there isn’t any way to validate who’s planning on flying if called, vs just leaving one in the system for violation purposes. Either way, it’s legal per the PWA and I don’t expect it to stop any time soon.

beis77 05-21-2023 04:55 PM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 3639657)
Yeah, getting a million pilots paid for "batch size" violations is the least of my concerns. I'd give that up in a second for an equivalent amount of money in any other area.

But...a contract is a contract. So I want that paid as appropriate. What I really want is an instant remedy for RR and coverage issue instead of the "fly now, grieve later.

I’m really interested to see how the next few months play out. Reserve coverage moving to 18-hour callouts is bound to stress the system (that is so reliant on short notice coverage). It will also be interesting to see how the company handles the new reroute pay implementation on 8/1 - will they magically stop rerouting crews the way they’ve tried to seriously limit 30 hour layovers? Or will they just fork over the cash hand over fist and reroute the crap out of folks business as usual? This summer is going to be…

TED74 05-21-2023 06:00 PM


Originally Posted by beis77 (Post 3639779)
I’m really interested to see how the next few months play out. Reserve coverage moving to 18-hour callouts is bound to stress the system (that is so reliant on short notice coverage).

I’m also interested to watch the changes at work. My hunch is that starting the coverage ladder a full day earlier than baseline will more than offset the effects of 18 hour LC. SCs will potentially be assigned earlier and more efficiently, GS will flow earlier to the benefit of commuters. Out of base reserves will be allocated cross-country more easily. 23M7 usage will likely drop. All in all I think we will see less chaos, which I believe will help more people than it hurts. Naturally there will always be winners and losers though…


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