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ClaraShip 05-12-2023 04:25 PM


Originally Posted by interceptorpilo (Post 3635776)
What is wrong with putting in for a GS with little to no intention of flying one? It’s in the contract.

It screws junior pilots that would have been able to do the GS for the same reasons you describe (college tuition, etc) but now can’t make the last flight to commute in because they haven’t been awarded it yet because ARCOS is calling every senior pilot, three at a time (if initiated after 2300 or only one pilot at a time if more than 8 hours out) every 15 minutes permitting them the full acceptance window before moving on.

Whoopsmybad 05-12-2023 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by ClaraShip (Post 3635827)
It screws junior pilots that would have been able to do the GS for the same reasons you describe (college tuition, etc) but now can’t make the last flight to commute in because they haven’t been awarded it yet because ARCOS is calling every senior pilot, three at a time (if initiated after 2300 or only one pilot at a time if more than 8 hours out) every 15 minutes permitting them the full acceptance window before moving on.

Very valid point. I don’t plan on flying any on my days off this month. Too much family stuff. Don’t have a GS in. Let it get to the junior peeps faster, hopefully a commuter that wants one can actually get one soon enough to make it.
I guess to interceptor that makes me an idiot. To each their own.

And my sarcasm was specifically for the people hoping to get a batch size violation, and stating that’s the only reason they put it in. I don’t fault them, and you are right, it is legal. I’m just not going to. But like I said, to each their own.

tennisguru 05-12-2023 04:53 PM

It would also greatly speed things up if once a person declines all trips in the batch ACROS would immediately move on to the next person instead of waiting the full 15 minute window.

ClaraShip 05-12-2023 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad (Post 3635749)
But what if I miss free $$ for batch size violations?!?!? /s/

CS eventually gives up on the GS list and I get nothing because they called you and waited 15 minutes for you to never respond. I could have received 10:30 for a one day trip you’d never accept but now I get nothing, every single time. Maybe you’ll get 5:15 pay for being skipped, maybe not. But I’ll either not get the call at all or after it’s too late to make it. I’d prefer you not play that game or at least not feign ignorance you’re actually affecting junior pilots that would actually fly that lame GS you never would accept. I know you’re being a devils advocate but enough people to make this a problem think and do this, but this isn’t a victimless game.

interceptorpilo 05-12-2023 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by ClaraShip (Post 3635842)
CS eventually gives up on the GS list and I get nothing because they called you and waited 15 minutes for you to never respond. I could have received 10:30 for a one day trip you’d never accept but now I get nothing, every single time. Maybe you’ll get 5:15 pay for being skipped, maybe not. But I’ll either not get the call at all or after it’s too late to make it. I’d prefer you not play that game or at least not feign ignorance you’re actually affecting junior pilots that would actually fly that lame GS you never would accept. I know you’re being a devils advocate but enough people to make this a problem think and do this, but this isn’t a victimless game.

I agree there are victims but the perpetrator of the crime is the Company. There are LOTS of things they could do to remedy this. BTW I am a junior pilot in my category that commutes. I cannot make any of the green slips or IAs that make it to my seniority number. There is NEVER enough time to get there. The Company could run the list earlier (I see trips not covered in open time for weeks). The Company could come to the Union with a request to increase batch size (with a quid pro quo). The Company could follow the contract and not invoke 23M outside its intent. The Company could man the air line properly. Lots of things but don’t blame other pilots.

JetPilotDaddy 05-12-2023 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by ClaraShip (Post 3635448)
First, a question: if a senior pilot got skipped for a GS because CS bypassed the coverage ladder and went to IA on a Monday, would the same pilot again get paid if the same thing happened on Tuesday or would that go to the next senior pilot (maybe the assumption is yesterdays pilot should be flying on Tuesday). What if the same thing happened several times on Tuesday?

This is the question I'd love answered: If Bob (senior papa in base) has the first two weeks of the month off and a blanket GS in, and CS just goes to IA 4 times over that period, does Bob get all 4 'senior eligible pilot paid' or does it work like a GS1 and they can't get another until others below get some free money?

Gspeed 05-12-2023 05:19 PM

I especially love how they have trips open all day long and yet don’t run the greenslip coverage until the middle of the night, thus making the timing even worse due to Quiet Hours batch sizing. Talk about a self-induced emergency.

TED74 05-12-2023 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by JetPilotDaddy (Post 3635851)
This is the question I'd love answered: If Bob (senior papa in base) has the first two weeks of the month off and a blanket GS in, and CS just goes to IA 4 times over that period, does Bob get all 4 'senior eligible pilot paid' or does it work like a GS1 and they can't get another until others below get some free money?

Email the union and report back. Inquiring minds want to know.

SabreDriver 05-12-2023 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by JetPilotDaddy (Post 3635851)
This is the question I'd love answered: If Bob (senior papa in base) has the first two weeks of the month off and a blanket GS in, and CS just goes to IA 4 times over that period, does Bob get all 4 'senior eligible pilot paid' or does it work like a GS1 and they can't get another until others below get some free money?


How it should work is:

CS initiates coverage, that process runs through all the steps on the ladder…. If at any time they (CS) abandon the coverage ladder and use reroute or IA to cover the flight, so be it. But, the ARCOS coverage should continue, and the first pilot to accept the trip (that was already covered) gets pay protection. Not just the senior pilot, but the senior pilot who actually accepted/acknowledges the trip via ARCOS. I think that would generate some much needed transparency in the trip coverage.

Maybe it’s time for some union representatives to sit in crew scheduling and observe, perhaps abandoning the coverage ladder should require union notification and concurrence…in real time. There’s no telling how much $ we could capture, that currently takes months to recover.

DeltaboundRedux 05-12-2023 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by Gspeed (Post 3635852)
I especially love how they have trips open all day long and yet don’t run the greenslip coverage until the middle of the night, thus making the timing even worse due to Quiet Hours batch sizing. Talk about a self-induced emergency.

100%.

Complain about "blanket greenslips" all you want, but that GS trip with a 5 am sign in that I would have happily taken at 8pm the night before is a giant p*** off when the phone rings at 345am.


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