DALPA Pay raise
02-20-2024, 08:36 AM
#1
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DALPA Pay raise
I know there is another thread concerning this but want to address a specific point. DALPA contends that with GS and working the system line Pilots credit above 80 Hours a month which is probably true. IS it 108?
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
02-20-2024, 10:13 AM
#2
Bent over by buybacks
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 516
My understanding is that if the proposal is approved, only full-time DALPA positions would get the 108 hours. And there is no ability for them to pick up green slips, IAs, etc. when doing full time work. When they fly, I guess they buy a trip or part of a trip from a line pilot. The line pilot gets paid to stay home, and the full time DALPA pilot doesn't get any additional money above the full time FPL amount.
I think the majority of DALPA volunteers including reps are part time, and would not generally get close to 108 hours of FPL.
I think the majority of DALPA volunteers including reps are part time, and would not generally get close to 108 hours of FPL.
02-20-2024, 10:13 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Scoop
I know there is another thread concerning this but want to address a specific point. DALPA contends that with GS and working the system line Pilots credit above 80 Hours a month which is probably true. IS it 108?
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
Most of the arguments I’ve heard against ALPA volunteers being compensated more have been coming from pilots who don’t even really seem to have an understanding of what it is ALPA does. Or they have an opinion of them based on past experiences with the organization.
02-20-2024, 11:13 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 932
Originally Posted by Scoop
I know there is another thread concerning this but want to address a specific point. DALPA contends that with GS and working the system line Pilots credit above 80 Hours a month which is probably true. IS it 108?
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
Well DALPA guys seem to get plenty of GS also so this makes no sense.
How about this - IF DALPA wants to pay themselves 108 hours of pay or whatever the number is how about they are ineligible for GSs? After the junior line Pilot has a shot at a GS then the DALPA pilot would be eligible for a IA.
Seems DALPA wants it both ways - they want to credit more out of the gate and also be eligible to "work" the system via GS etc.
I realize DALPA guys work hard but if we increase the compensation to the point where it is superior to what Line Pilots earn will it really attract the type of volunteers that we want or will it attract those who are interested in a very lucrative gig?
Scoop
02-20-2024, 11:17 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by 20Fathoms
Just a single data point but I think I’ve only hit 108 hours twice in the last ten years. Who knows maybe I’m an outlier, but that seems really high. Spiking your credit that much is also highly BES dependent.
02-20-2024, 11:44 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by StoneQOLdCrazy
My understanding is that if the proposal is approved, only full-time DALPA positions would get the 108 hours. And there is no ability for them to pick up green slips, IAs, etc. when doing full time work. When they fly, I guess they buy a trip or part of a trip from a line pilot. The line pilot gets paid to stay home, and the full time DALPA pilot doesn't get any additional money above the full time FPL amount.
I think the majority of DALPA volunteers including reps are part time, and would not generally get close to 108 hours of FPL.
I think the majority of DALPA volunteers including reps are part time, and would not generally get close to 108 hours of FPL.
”PMRC Recommendation: Increase daily FPL from 5:15/day to 6:00/day for part-time volunteers. Increasing FPL from 5:15 to 6:00 drives an increase in FPL for a full-time volunteer from 94:30/month to 108:00/month, working the same 18 days per month. Of note, none of the 18 days may be worked from home.”
If you increase the FPL from 5:15 to 6:00, it drives both the full time AND part time RATE to 108:00/month. Add in normal flying and the part timer easily makes 108:00 with dropped trips for Alpa. As a reference point, this used to be capped at 89:00 in the 2010s. You could earn more than 89:00 as a part timer, but Alpa would cut pay reimbursement for trips over 89:00 minute for minute.
Alpa is already getting paid more thanks to the massive lift with the pay rates from the last contract. For those counting EDP in the comparison, that only kicks in with excessively long duty days. Is the 6:00 FPL contingent on an ALPA day of 12 hours of duty like the line pilots?
02-20-2024, 11:59 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,524
Originally Posted by Planetrain
Your understanding is only partially correct. From PRMC 24-01:
”PMRC Recommendation: Increase daily FPL from 5:15/day to 6:00/day for part-time volunteers. Increasing FPL from 5:15 to 6:00 drives an increase in FPL for a full-time volunteer from 94:30/month to 108:00/month, working the same 18 days per month. Of note, none of the 18 days may be worked from home.”
If you increase the FPL from 5:15 to 6:00, it drives both the full time AND part time RATE to 108:00/month. Add in normal flying and the part timer easily makes 108:00 with dropped trips for Alpa. As a reference point, this used to be capped at 89:00 in the 2010s. You could earn more than 89:00 as a part timer, but Alpa would cut pay reimbursement for trips over 89:00 minute for minute.
Alpa is already getting paid more thanks to the massive lift with the pay rates from the last contract. For those counting EDP in the comparison, that only kicks in with excessively long duty days. Is the 6:00 FPL contingent on an ALPA day of 12 hours of duty like the line pilots?
”PMRC Recommendation: Increase daily FPL from 5:15/day to 6:00/day for part-time volunteers. Increasing FPL from 5:15 to 6:00 drives an increase in FPL for a full-time volunteer from 94:30/month to 108:00/month, working the same 18 days per month. Of note, none of the 18 days may be worked from home.”
If you increase the FPL from 5:15 to 6:00, it drives both the full time AND part time RATE to 108:00/month. Add in normal flying and the part timer easily makes 108:00 with dropped trips for Alpa. As a reference point, this used to be capped at 89:00 in the 2010s. You could earn more than 89:00 as a part timer, but Alpa would cut pay reimbursement for trips over 89:00 minute for minute.
Alpa is already getting paid more thanks to the massive lift with the pay rates from the last contract. For those counting EDP in the comparison, that only kicks in with excessively long duty days. Is the 6:00 FPL contingent on an ALPA day of 12 hours of duty like the line pilots?
02-20-2024, 12:10 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,641
Originally Posted by higney85
for the “part timers” ALPA is prebid, so it’s not trips dropped. I know some reps have to get a trip drop for some serious meetings and even committee chairs if something way out of the norm pops up, but that is not the norm. Look at the wide reports and you will see that folks have ALPA prebuilt into their lines. Coded ALPP I believe. Doesn’t count as rest or duty.
02-20-2024, 12:43 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by Planetrain
We’re working on a new contract 2 years out of 5. There’s a lot of dropped trips for ALPA part timers that’s not prebid. Last contract negotiations we had big MEC meetings just about once a month. Think of all the strike prep and picketing. All the black swan and Covid events. It’s a lot more prevalent than you’re letting on to.
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