Originally Posted by FangsF15

Off the shelf does. not. exist. Do you think a Fortune 500 company just gives access to proprietary data to anyone? Do you think they give give server access to just anyone? Then, once you get accecss to that data, what are you supposed to do to protect it? Accredations in the IT world don't come cheap.

It's not that ACE is especially unique, per se. However, ACE is uniquely tailored to the pilots vs towards the company or even ALPA. But there’s way more behind the scenes that creates value. The combination of increased awareness by the pilots (resulting in a mountain of reports vs before ACE, which enabled reporting of a mountain of violations), plus desktop software used by the union to process that information (which previously took 10x+ the amount of time per violation), is part of the value. Plus, due to company data access in the new contract (influenced by 5S, OBTW), lots of the reporting can soon be automated. Auto-ID has been part of the vision from the start (and could have been turned on over a year ago if the MEC admin was doing its job) 5S turned it "on" on their way out on their own. ACE stands for Automated Contract Enforcement. All that comes at a legitimate cost.

If y'all want to go back to not knowing what's going on, and reporting potential violations via email, plus the ALPA being unable to efficiently process potential violations (i.e. go back to only recovering ~$3M/yr vs ~$20+M/yr), then ACE isn’t worth it. Or worse, get something that really IS a glorified spreadsheet, programmed by a dude in India... I submit the money ALPA has invested is worth every penny. ACE has literally changed company behavior.

Again, I'm all for the company having to foot the bill to ensure they follow their own contract. (But I again submit we do not want the company controlling ACE, we want ALPA controlling it). Put it on the list of 'asks' for C26.

Originally Posted by Viper25

“Soon” LOL. What are you smoking? I want some.

Originally Posted by interceptorpilo

Fangs:

How do you know a much about this? Do you have ins with the Company that created it? I didn’t think you were an ALPA insider so just how do you know so much and why are you so invested in it? Genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

Well, Auto ID is live, is it not?? Do you think maybe that’s the only capability in the waiting?…



Let’s just say I know a guy…. I’m not on payroll with with 5S, nor am I involved with 5S, if that’s what you are asking.

Originally Posted by Viper25

Auto ID is live, only for reroutes and none of the other 6900 provisions. And even if you consider that live, it will be dead in a month when ACE goes away (even if that’s not the case it’s just “live” for reroutes).

It’s also generous to call it live when the union, by their own admission, does not have direct API access yet and won’t for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

<sigh> So what do you think it takes to get our entire PWA, with all its nuances and Intricacies programmed? Mayyyyube that takes money invested in a product? Mayyyybe that’s what the MEC was doing when they actually increased the remuneration from the first contract to the second/current one…. Where they were building out alll that stuff with that ~$1.3M/year. Mayyyybe we are on the cusp of having more than just reroute Auto-ID turned on, just as the MEC Admin started playing games. And Mayyyybe there is a lifeline on the horizon to actually keep ACE around.

BTW, the union does have API access, which is how Auto ID is finding that “missed” reroute. They have been getting EOM complete downloads for over a year. I’m not exactly sure what the status of real-time access is, but if not already there, it’s imminent.

Originally Posted by Viper25

NN 24-02

“Direct API AccessThe Association and the Company continue to work through the myriad number of issues involved with direct access to scheduling data. The legacy systems that are currently in use, as well as the transition to the new crew scheduling system, are producing complications, but the Company and Association are working through the issues.”

Anecdotally, after speaking to reps and a member of the NC on this very topic, they don’t expect direct API access sooner than the last months of this year.

So based on both of those points, I’m not entirely sure what you’re talking about when you say that ALPA has access at the start of your second paragraph.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

You are talking about real-time API access. I'm talking about the once-per-month data file they get with all the same data.

How do you think the Auto-ID works if they don't have access to any data??

Originally Posted by Viper25

I didn’t know they get a file once a month, and I honestly didn’t know how auto-ID worked until your post here. It was actually one of the things I was going to ask.

The monthly retroactive look is nice. But pilots need to be made aware when there’s an issue in real time (especially for things *besides reroutes*). For that, we’ll need ACE and real time access to DBMS. I’m not holding my breath on either, regardless of what the contract says.

Originally Posted by cencal83406

Taking away ACE gets us back to square one. 6 years of development work just flushed. I would expect an equivalent product not to be ready until 2030.