Originally Posted by crewdawg

Like someone else above, I came to the 717 from 330 (displaced) and wasn't sure I was going to like it, I just knew I wanted to be senior, but I like it way more than I'd ever have imagined. However, that is highly predicated on the fact that I'm local, have a very flexible schedule and still can manipulate my schedule quite a bit. This means I can make much more and spend more time at home than I did on the 330. So take my viewpoint with that in mind.

As far as the trips, they're all pretty meh. Nothing is really that great, but plenty is crap. With a little seniority, you can fly 3-2-3 three-day trips vs the 3-4-3 trips. 30 hours are far fewer with is good or bad, depending on your likes. For DTW, they keep saying planes are coming back online, but they keep only posting 717A's in ATL, so we're short staffed and getting worse. To me, the ATL bid packet is much worse than DTW. I much prefer the small city layovers and I'm good if I never go back to NYC, LAX, etc... I'm the opposite of Trip, the fact that I CAN'T be in SJU one day and ANC the next, is what keeps me on the plane. If diversity of flying is something you need, then this isn't the place imho. I actually find this a pro, I love going into the same places, and getting vectors to an ILS final...it makes the flying just that much easier. Very few gotchas in our flying, you'll be dialing in departure freqs off memory. But honestly, I could fly the same turn for the rest of my life and I'd be ok with that. This job is to make me money and be home more, it's not a travel plan. I get my aviation enjoyment by flying outside of the airlines.


My personal likes: Short legs, generally easy flying, small airports, quick rides to hotels, small town layover, never more than one time zone away, no redeyes, mostly no night flying (unless it's an early departure lol), generally speaking no really long days (for me anyway), no JFK or LGA, never leave the country. We rarely swap body clocks, so you can be an AM flyer or a PM flyer (huge plus for me). Another pro is that everyone here mostly wants to be here, so the crews are generally more fun than any other fleet I've been on here, in DTW anyway...


Dislikes: Cockpit isn't as comfortable as a bus (but better than the 737 imo), winter de-ice fluid inside the cockpit, flying through ATL and their ridiculous wheels up times and constant plane swaps, 4 leg days unless it's short legs like DTW-GRR/TVC, very few trips ever break 5+25 ADG, as mentioned below we were left behind on banding and 1 and 2-day trip protections.


If there is one thing I've learned, it's that being junior on anything pretty much sucks. Get into the top 40% of a seat and you can all but ensure any day off. Get in the top 33% and life is dang good. Top 10% is a killer QOL and worth a lot of money. A buddy is top 10% 717B and many months he beats my pay while still getting all the days off he needs. Most of the FO's I fly with are upgrading to the 737/320 because they'll actually be more senior on those as compared to the 717.








Lol exactly! September is the worst bid packet to date (enter Homer Simpson meme here). Never mind that the one month they put out lucrative 1 days, you had to be in the top 10% to even get close to them and the rest of the bid packet was it's normal self. My guess is they never actually ran some examples of what the bid packet would look like. If they did, they either didn't have a 717 pilot look it over, or it was an ATL commuter lol. But hey, at least they didn't get us banded up with the 220.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I flew it for 3 years and counted the days until my freeze expired and then prayed for a new AE:

Cons:
1) The design is older than the 717. Not the screens but everything else.
2) Douglas engineers thought hydraulics were some sort of voodoo, so you're dealing with cables and pulleys. The elevators literally bang around on the ground in a tailwind.
3) The windows leak during de-icing, like bad. Like put anything valuable on the center pedestal bad.
4) For some reason the seats are on pedestals, so if you drop something you have to get out of your seat to grab it.
5) The wipers are two of the most useless devices ever constructed in aviation. They "park" right in front of your nose. You will have to open the window and pour water on the windshield to park them on the ground. But at least they wake you up.
6) Speaking of windows, you will have to open the left window to see the parking area in the rain at night. Your left window has been scrubbed by so many jetways it is literally opaque.
7) You never have a problem getting down, because the aircraft really wasn't designed to fly.
8) When you deploy the speedbrakes the aircraft rolls: Douglas engineering at its finest.
9) If you want coffee or to wash your hands on the ground you have to start the APU, which will most likely be on MEL.
10) You have to go outside to check the water/waste (to be honest, it shouldn't be our job anyway.)
11) You have to look at a mirror to use the standby compass.
12) With the amount of legs per day you will think, "I left the regionals for this?"

Pros:
1) It's a quiet cockpit.
2) Nice screens.
3) Single-engine autoland.

I much prefered the 737.

Fire away.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I flew it for 3 years and counted the days until my freeze expired and then prayed for a new AE:

Cons:
1) The design is older than the 717. Not the screens but everything else.
2) Douglas engineers thought hydraulics were some sort of voodoo, so you're dealing with cables and pulleys. The elevators literally bang around on the ground in a tailwind.
3) The windows leak during de-icing, like bad. Like put anything valuable on the center pedestal bad.
4) For some reason the seats are on pedestals, so if you drop something you have to get out of your seat to grab it.
5) The wipers are two of the most useless devices ever constructed in aviation. They "park" right in front of your nose. You will have to open the window and pour water on the windshield to park them on the ground. But at least they wake you up.
6) Speaking of windows, you will have to open the left window to see the parking area in the rain at night. Your left window has been scrubbed by so many jetways it is literally opaque.
7) You never have a problem getting down, because the aircraft really wasn't designed to fly.
8) When you deploy the speedbrakes the aircraft rolls: Douglas engineering at its finest.
9) If you want coffee or to wash your hands on the ground you have to start the APU, which will most likely be on MEL.
10) You have to go outside to check the water/waste (to be honest, it shouldn't be our job anyway.)
11) You have to look at a mirror to use the standby compass.
12) With the amount of legs per day you will think, "I left the regionals for this?"

Pros:
1) It's a quiet cockpit.
2) Nice screens.
3) Single-engine autoland.

I much prefered the 737.

Fire away.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I flew it for 3 years and counted the days until my freeze expired and then prayed for a new AE:

Cons:
1) The design is older than the 717. Not the screens but everything else.
2) Douglas engineers thought hydraulics were some sort of voodoo, so you're dealing with cables and pulleys. The elevators literally bang around on the ground in a tailwind.
3) The windows leak during de-icing, like bad. Like put anything valuable on the center pedestal bad.
4) For some reason the seats are on pedestals, so if you drop something you have to get out of your seat to grab it.
5) The wipers are two of the most useless devices ever constructed in aviation. They "park" right in front of your nose. You will have to open the window and pour water on the windshield to park them on the ground. But at least they wake you up.
6) Speaking of windows, you will have to open the left window to see the parking area in the rain at night. Your left window has been scrubbed by so many jetways it is literally opaque.
7) You never have a problem getting down, because the aircraft really wasn't designed to fly.
8) When you deploy the speedbrakes the aircraft rolls: Douglas engineering at its finest.
9) If you want coffee or to wash your hands on the ground you have to start the APU, which will most likely be on MEL.
10) You have to go outside to check the water/waste (to be honest, it shouldn't be our job anyway.)
11) You have to look at a mirror to use the standby compass.
12) With the amount of legs per day you will think, "I left the regionals for this?"

Pros:
1) It's a quiet cockpit.
2) Nice screens.
3) Single-engine autoland.

I much prefered the 737.

Fire away.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I flew it for 3 years and counted the days until my freeze expired and then prayed for a new AE:

Cons:
1) The design is older than the 717. Not the screens but everything else.

Having flown both, it's funny that you call this a con, then tout the 737.

2) Douglas engineers thought hydraulics were some sort of voodoo, so you're dealing with cables and pulleys. The elevators literally bang around on the ground in a tailwind.

True, it flies like a dump truck. 737 flies better.

3) The windows leak during de-icing, like bad. Like put anything valuable on the center pedestal bad.

This! Bring a trash bag to put over your flight bag, or just set it in between the seats.

4) For some reason the seats are on pedestals, so if you drop something you have to get out of your seat to grab it.

Don't even reach for it, it's gone, grab another Marriott pen.

5) The wipers are two of the most useless devices ever constructed in aviation. They "park" right in front of your nose. You will have to open the window and pour water on the windshield to park them on the ground. But at least they wake you up.

They are loud to the point of being disorienting.

6) Speaking of windows, you will have to open the left window to see the parking area in the rain at night. Your left window has been scrubbed by so many jetways it is literally opaque.

Anti-Fog on if it's even close. Not as big of an issue up north, but as a junior DTW guy, you'd likely be flying more ATL because we most of us senior guys try to avoid ATL.

7) You never have a problem getting down, because the aircraft really wasn't designed to fly.

I consider it's ability to get down a pro though. The other pro of this is that you'll never worry about overspeeding the gear and flaps.

8) When you deploy the speedbrakes the aircraft rolls: Douglas engineering at its finest.

Don't pull them like your pull starting a lawn mower.

9) If you want coffee or to wash your hands on the ground you have to start the APU, which will most likely be on MEL.

Valid and annoying. As far as the APU on MEL....I know I'm throwing a bunch of ATL hate, but nearly all my APU MEL'd jets we're when I got stuck with ATL flying and I had more MEL'd APU's on the 737.

10) You have to go outside to check the water/waste (to be honest, it shouldn't be our job anyway.)

I've never once worried about the waste and you can't check it anyway. I've rarely found water less than 3/4. Just stand left of the door when you open it if it's rained lol.

11) You have to look at a mirror to use the standby compass.

Valid, who thought that was a good idea?

12) With the amount of legs per day you will think, "I left the regionals for this?"

The paycheck is the reminder of why. ATL generally has more 4-leg days than DTW. Compared to 73N/320, the main reason you're flying less legs is because you're flying longer block. Legs vs block...which do you prefer? I know one thing, I rarely ever have to worry about duty day or block limit.


Pros:
1) It's a quiet cockpit.
2) Nice screens.
3) Single-engine autoland.

My pros added:

-Only 2 bases. So less of a chance of being blind-sided by a OOB reserve assignment (Yxxx trip).

- A go-around isn't a traumatic experience lol.

I much prefered the 737.

Fire away.

Originally Posted by tennisguru

At least 717 pilots can do a go-around without nearly stalling the plane, which seems to happen with some regularity on the 737. 😀

But really, the autopilot logic is much simpler on the 717. Coupled two- and single-engine approaches and go arounds are all the same, each time every time. Plus if you are so inclined you can use the auto throttles all the way through touch down on every landing.

Originally Posted by Viper25

is this not true of every plane at the company?

Originally Posted by Viper25

is this not true of every plane at the company?

Originally Posted by TALPAtalker

I was told the 7ER has to turn them off.

GogglesPisano, that is an excellent summary of the 717. I laughed so hard!